(Updated 7/17/20). Have you heard of the anti-aging supplement Protandim? Maybe you saw a YouTube video of when Protandim was featured on ABC's PrimeTime? Protandim called an “Nrf2 activator” has been said to be the “only supplement clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress in humans by an average of 40 percent in 30 days.” That’s fancy talk for Protandim is a type of antioxidant supplement. Unlike other products, Protandim is said to work by helping the body increase its own natural antioxidant enzymes. Sounds good, but does Protandim work, or is it a scam? These are some of the questions I will address in this review. The good news is there are clinical studies on Protandim. I will use that research in this review and help you understand it. By the end of this review, you'll have a better idea if Protandim is right for you.
Other Anti-Aging Supplement Reviews
What Is Protandim?
Protandim might sound like a drug but it's really a dietary supplement. It's said to combat free radical damage (oxidative stress) by stimulating the production of the body's own natural antioxidant enzymes such as catalase, superoxide dismutase (SOD), and glutathione.
The idea goes like this: instead of taking individual antioxidant supplements (like vitamins C, E, etc.) in the hopes they will battle free radicals and combat aging and disease, Protandim is supposed to augment or ramp up your own naturally occurring free radical defenses.
It's a novel concept to be sure.
The supplement website (LifeVantage.com) says the supplement is “clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress to levels of that of a 20-year-old.” Oxidative stress refers to the stress (cellular damage) caused by free radicals.
What Does The Name Mean?
My guess is the name was chosen because the ingredients are supposed to “pro-actively” work in “tandim” to help defend us against aging and disease.
Who Makes Protandim?
Protandim is a product of a company called LifeVantage Corporation. LifeVantage is actually a publicly traded stock on the NASDAQ. Its stock symbol is LFVN.
The company is located at 9785 S. Monroe Street, Suite 300 Sandy, UT 84070. If you google this address you will see a building with “LifeVantage” at the top. That is good. It tells us the company has a physical location.
Contact LifeVantage
Call the company at 866-460-7241.
The Better Business Bureau gave LifeVantage an A- rating when this review was updated. See the BBB file for updates and more information.
Protandim Ingredients
According to the product's website, there are 5 ingredients in each caplet of Protandim which add up to 625 mg:
| Amount Per Serving (1 caplet) | Percent Daily Value |
|---|---|
| Calcium (as dicalcum phosphate & calcium carbonate) 77 mg | 8% DV |
| Proprietary Blend Consisting of the following | 675 mg |
| Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) seed. | |
| Bacopa extract (Bacopa monnieri) whole herb | |
| Ashwagandha extract (Withania somnifera) root | |
| Green tea extract (Camellia sinensis) leaf | |
| Turmeric extract (Curcuma longa) rhizome |
Notice in the table above they tell us the source of each ingredient:
- The milk thistle extract is derived from the seeds of the plant
- The bacopa extract is derived from the whole plant
- The ashwagandha extract is derived from the root of the plant
- The green tea extract comes from the leaves of the plant
- The turmeric extract is derived from the underground stems (rhizome) of the plant
Other Ingredients
The supplement label also tells the supplement has these other ingredients:
- Microcrystalline Cellulose
- Croscarmellose Sodium Silica
- Modified Cellulose
- Stearic Acid
- Magnesium Stearate
- Maltodextrin
- Medium Chain Triglycerides
These other ingredients play no role in the effects or benefits of the product. They make up the caplets and/or help with the delivery of the ingredients into the body.
I want to commend the LifeVantage company for sponsoring much of the research below. It's rare to find a product with so many clinical studies.
Protandim Research
Protandim is different from a lot of supplements because there really is clinical research on this product. Below is a summary of the Protandim research with links to the studies for those who want to see them for themselves.
Because scientific studies can be wordy and complicated for most people, I will summarize the study and put the research in the proper context to make it easier to understand.
2016 Protandim Research
Study
The Effect of Protandim® Supplementation on Athletic Performance and Oxidative Blood Markers in Runners.
Study summary: In this investigation, researchers tested if taking Protandim (675 mg/day) for 90 days would improve 5K running performance and reduce TBARS. The study involved 38 runners who were randomly given either Protandim or a placebo.
Results: After 90 days, those taking Protandim (1x/day) showed no improvement in running performance compared to those taking the placebo. In addition, Protandim did not reduce TBARS or alter levels of antioxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase (SOD) or glutathione peroxidase (GPX) during resting periods. The researchers report however that in those over age 35, Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo.
See the full review of this study
Study
Longer lifespan in male mice treated with a weakly estrogenic agonist, an antioxidant, an α-glucosidase inhibitor or an Nrf2-inducer.
Study summary: Here, researchers sought to determine what effect various compounds had on extending the life of mice. Protandim was one of the compounds tested. The other compounds tested in the study were fish oil, ursodeoxycholic acid (a bile acid, used to dissolve gall stones), and the diabetes drug, metformin. Different mice received the different compounds for their entire lifespan.
Beginning at 10 months of age, mice received Protandim at a dosage of 600 parts per million (ppm) in their food. This amount was chosen because it was similar to the Protandim dosage used by people. When the mice were 17 months old, the dosage was increased to 1200 ppm because this was thought to be better.
Study results: researchers noted male mice getting Protandim had a 7% increase in average lifespan. The supplement did not lengthen the life span of female mice. The researchers also point out that while the average lifespan was increased, the maximum lifespan did not increase. Regardless, this was a mouse study.
2013 Protandim Research
Study
Study
Upregulation of phase II enzymes through phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects cardiomyocytes against oxidant stress
Study results: Researchers noted that mouse heart cells treated with Protandim increased the production of an antioxidant/anti-inflammatory enzyme called Heme oxygenase 1 (HO-1) as well as Nrf2. This was a test-tube study using isolated mouse heart cells.
This investigation is derived from a Masters's Thesis in 2010. The title of the MS Thesis is “UPREGULATION OF HEME OXYGENASE-1 AND ACTIVATION OF NRF2 BY THE PHYTOCHEMICALS IN PROTANDIM .” It is not unusual for a quality MS thesis or other graduate work to go through the peer-review process and be published.
2012 Protandim Research
Study
Antioxidants for the Treatment of Patients with Severe Angioproliferative Pulmonary Hypertension? Published in the journal, Antioxidants in Redox Signaling.
Summary: This is a rat study. Protandim increased antioxidant enzymes in rats, protecting the hearts from damage.
Study
Phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects human coronary artery endothelial cells against an oxidative challenge published in the journal, Oxidative Medicine and Cellular Longevity.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Human coronary (heart) artery cells were treated with Protandim (20 micrograms per milliliter) or placebo (ethanol). All cells were then treated with hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to induce free radical damage. Cells treated with Protandim showed less cell death than those getting the placebo.
Study
Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders.
Summary: This investigation showed the supplement did not work. To be fair, this was a strange study. Researchers looked at 30 alcoholics . The researchers stuck tubes down the throats of the subjects to take fluid samples from their lungs. They randomly gave the people 1350 mg of Protandim per day or a placebo, for a week. They tested for various things to see if Protandim helped the people. It didn’t.
I don't know how relevant this study is to whether Protandim works or not. I mentioned it because it was a human study. For a much more in-depth review of this study—written by a doctor—see the review posted on ScienceBasedMedicine.org.
2011 Protandim Research
Study
Oxidative stress in health and disease: the therapeutic potential of Nrf2 activation.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Essentially, Protandim altered cellular pathways involved in antioxidant enzyme production and colon cancer, cardiovascular disease (heart disease), and Alzheimer's disease. This is encouraging, but, humans are more complicated than isolated cells. This study doesn’t prove the supplement reduces the risk of any of these diseases.
Study
The role of manganese superoxide dismutase in skin cancer.
Summary: This is a mouse study. Here, researchers reported the supplement reduced tumor growth in mice. For the most part, this appears to be a review of previous research relating free radical damage to the development of skin cancer.
Study
Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.
Summary. This is a test tube study. Basically, a blood vessel was bathed in Protandim. Researchers noted the supplement reduced the thickening of vein cells.
2010 Protandim Research
Study
The Dietary Supplement Protandim Decreases Plasma Osteopontin and Improves Markers of Oxidative Stress in Muscular Dystrophy Mdx Mice.
Summary. This is a mouse study. Mice were genetically created to have muscular dystrophy. They were given Protandim at a dosage similar to what is recommended for humans. After 6 months, the mice given Protandim showed a 46%reduction in the free radical breakdown of fat (TBARS). TBARS stand for ThiobarBituric Acid Reactive Substances.
The greater the TBAR level, the greater free radical damage. Thus, reducing TBARS is taken to be a good thing. This doesn't prove Protandim helps muscular dystrophy. People with muscular dystrophy should discuss this with their doctor for greater insights.
Study
The chemopreventive effects of Protandim: modulation of p53 mitochondrial translocation and apoptosis during skin carcinogenesis.
Summary: This is a mouse study. Protandim reduced damage to the mitochondria of mouse cells. of this study. The mitochondria, often called the “powerhouse” of the cell, make energy —and makes free radicals in the process. The mitochondria are a major area of anti-aging research.
Study
Chronic pulmonary artery pressure elevation is insufficient to explain right heart failure.
Summary. This is a rat study. Researchers tested if the supplement helped pulmonary blood pressure. After 6 weeks, Protandim did not reduce pulmonary artery blood pressure or the number of lung lesions. These researchers did say “our data point to a cardioprotective effect of Protandim.” But, this is a vague statement.
2009 Protandim Research
Study
Protandim, a fundamentally new antioxidant approach in chemoprevention using mouse two-stage skin carcinogenesis as a model.
Summary: This is a mouse study.
Study
Synergistic induction of heme oxygenase-1 by the components of the antioxidant supplement Protandim.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Cells treated with supplements showed significant increases in glutathione, an antioxidant compound. This is the study LifeVantage lists as “proof” Protandim increases glutathione levels by 300%. It may raise glutathione 300% – in a test tube – but does the same effect occur in people?
2006 Protandim Research
Study
The induction of human superoxide dismutase and catalase in vivo: a fundamentally new approach to antioxidant therapy.
This is a human study. 39 healthy men and women, age 20-78 years were given Protandim (675 mg per day) between 30 and 120 days.
Study Summary:
1. Protandim caused a significant increase in the antioxidant superoxide dismutase (SOD) in red blood cells.
2. TBARS declined by 40% after 30 days
3. SOD in red blood cells increased by 30% after 120 days
4. Catalase decreased by 40% after 120 days
5. There was a non-significant rise (4.9%) in uric acid.
6. No change in CRP levels was seen.
7. No change in HDL, LDL or triglycerides were seen.
Protandim Research Summary
Here is a quick summary of the research:
| Study Year / Title | Study Type (Human, mouse, etc.) |
| 2016 Research | |
| The Effect of Protandim Supplementation on Athletic Performance and Oxidative Blood Markers in Runners | Humans |
| Longer lifespan in male mice treated with a weakly estrogenic agonist, an antioxidant, an α-glucosidase inhibitor or a Nrf2-inducer | mice |
| 2013 Research | |
| Upregulation of phase II enzymes through phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects cardiomyocytes against oxidant stress | Mouse heart cells |
| 2012 Research | |
| Antioxidants for the treatment of patients with severe angioproliferative pulmonary hypertension? | Rats |
| Phytochemical Activation of Nrf2 Protects Human Coronary Artery Endothelial Cells against an Oxidative Challenge | Test tube study |
| Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders. | Humans |
| 2011 Research | |
| Oxidative stress in health and disease: the therapeutic potential of Nrf2 activation. | Test tube study |
| The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer | Mice |
| Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway | Test tube study |
| 2010 Research | |
| The Dietary Supplement Protandim® Decreases Plasma Osteopontin and Improves Markers of Oxidative Stress in Muscular Dystrophy Mdx Mice | Mice |
| The Chemopreventive Effects of Protandim: Modulation of p53 Mitochondrial Translocation and Apoptosis during Skin Carcinogenesis | Mice |
| Chronic Pulmonary Artery Pressure Elevation Is Insufficient to Explain Right Heart Failure | Rats |
| 2009 Research | |
| Protandim, a Fundamentally New Antioxidant Approach in Chemoprevention Using Mouse Two-Stage Skin Carcinogenesis as a Model | Mice |
| Synergistic induction of heme oxygenase-1 by the components of the antioxidant supplement Protandim. | Test tube study |
| 2006 Research | |
| The induction of human superoxide dismutase and catalase in vivo: a fundamentally new approach to antioxidant therapy. | Humans |
To be fair, it's possible I may have missed some research. I'll update this table as I become aware of new research.
My Thoughts On The Research
While Protandim has been the subject of several clinical investigations, only 3 of them involved humans. They are:
- The 2006 study (click to see study)
- The 2012 study (click to see study)
- The 2016 study (click to see the study)
Protandim And Weight Loss
Can Protaindm help you lose weight? There is no good evidence for this. None of the above clinical investigations was about weight loss. To the credit of LifeVangage, they do not market this supplement for weight reduction.
Protandim And Multiple Sclerosis
Is this supplement worthwhile if you have Multiple sclerosis (MS)? Some have put forth the idea that disruption of free radical stress – via stabilizing Nrf2 (the stuff this supplement is supposed to improve) – might help MS. So, is there any proof? There was an investigation presented in 2011 at the 5th Joint triennial congress of the European and Americas Committees for Treatment and Research in Multiple Sclerosis Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
The title of the presentation was: Nrf2 activators: a novel strategy to promote oligodendrocyte survival in multiple sclerosis? Here, researchers treated rat and human oligodendrocytes with several compounds ― one of which was Protandim ― and then exposed the cells to a chemical to create free radical damage.
These researchers noted Protandim was seen as “the most potent inducer” of Nrf2 antioxidant enzymes defenses. In other words, Protandim helped the most.
This is intriguing, but it's not the same as giving it to people with MS to see if their symptoms improved.
There is also some evidence that stimulating Nrf2 might reduce cellular inflammation via inhibition of NFkb. Inhibition of NFkb is also something another supplement – called Anatabloc – was supposed to do. Currently, though there is little human proof for Protandim improving quality of life in those with MS.
See the Anatabloc review.
Protandim And ABC Primetime
In 2005, this supplement was featured on ABC's Primetime news show. In this segment, ABC correspondent John Quinones met with Dr. Joe McCord, a respected researcher whose name appears on many of the Protandim clinical studies. According to his Wikipedia page, as a grad student, Dr. McCord was involved with the discovery of Superoxide Dismutase, an important free radical savaging enzyme. Here is the ABC Primetime segment :
Basically, John Quinones gets a blood test to measure his TBAR level (an indicator of oxidative stress). He's given Protandim for 2 weeks and then returns to the lab where he has his blood tested again.
Dr. McCord tells John Quinones the supplement caused a “45% reduction” in oxidative stress and goes on to say this is the level seen in a “newborn baby”. The ABC Primetime segment is often used as proof the supplement really works. But, as I see it, one problem is John Quinones doesn't have is blood tested by an independent lab. This is bad science in my opinion.
Of course, the Primetime segment is interesting. But it's been over a decade since this segment aired. You'd think such an impressive result would warrant a follow-up. I wish Primetime and John Quinones would do a follow-up story.
Update. Dr. McCord is now involved with the PB125 supplement.
Protandim And The FDA
In 2017, the FDA reached out to LifeVantage to inform them they considered Protandim to be a drug and not a supplement based on claims made about it as an NRF2 Synergizer. Basically, the FDA was saying the claims being made at the time, made people think the supplement could treat disease. This is something not allowed under US supplement regulation. This may be the reason for the dramatic change in the LifeVantage website and marketing. There are no more claims about the effects of the supplement. Instead, the company now calls itself “a wellness and personal care company” and makes references to “bio-hacking.”
Do Doctors Endorse Protandim?
While the supplement is not endorsed by the American Medical Association (they don't endorse any supplement), I'm sure some physicians believe in it – and others who don't.
Does Protandim Have Caffeine?
According to the product website, each tablet has 1.8mg of caffeine. That's much less than in a cup of coffee and most energy drinks. I don't think this small amount would keep people up at night, but because we are all different it might be wise to not take it close to bedtime.
Is It Kosher?
No. this supplement is not kosher or organic. It is however made in the US. That is good.
Protandim Side Effects
Are there any Protandim dangers out there? I don't think so. I believe this supplement is pretty safe. I am not aware of any side effects. That said, here are a few general things you might want to think about if your not healthy. This list is not complete:
- Start with less than the recommended dosage for the first week to see how you respond
- Speak to your doctor/ pharmacist if you are pregnant or breastfeeding
- Stop taking the supplement at least 2 weeks before having surgery
- Speak to your doctor /pharmacist if you take any prescription drugs like blood thinners
One study noted the supplement might raise uric acid levels (by 4.9%). Would this be bad for those who suffer from gout? Currently, there is no direct proof gout pain is increased by Protandim. See the review of Tart Cherry Juice for more info.
While allergic reactions are likely uncommon, LifeVantage does mention this possibility in some people. Specific symptoms mentioned on the LifeVantage website include:
- gastrointestinal disturbances (i.e., stomach ache, diarrhea, vomiting)
- sometimes as a headache or rash on the hands or feet
Stop taking the supplement if you experience these symptoms.
The company website warns against using the supplement if you are undergoing chemotherapy or radiation therapy for cancer. This is likely because of the unknowns of combining antioxidants with some cancer therapies. If you have cancer or are getting treatment for it, ask your doctor. I'm glad the LifeVantage company informs people about this.
LifeVantage also stresses the importance of talking to a doctor if you have any autoimmune disease like arthritis or Type I diabetes. I'm not aware of any problems in anyone but I appreciated the company mentioning this.
How To Measure Your TBARS
Remember TBARS are a measure of free radical damage (oxidative stress) of cells. Protandim is said to reduce TBARS. The TBAR test is also called a Lipid Peroxidase test. Ask your physician about this test. For those who really want to know if Protandim is working, getting this test done first—and a month later— might be a good idea. I'm not sure if insurance covers the test or not. Talk to your doctor for more information on this.
Aged Garlic Extract also has some evidence it might reduce TBARS (click to see review)
TrueScience Brand
True Science is a brand name under which various beauty products made by the company can be identified. Products offered under the True Science brand include:
- Shampoo
- Scalp serum
- Facial cleanser
- Eye serum
What is PhysIQ?
PhysIQ is the brand name associated with various fitness-related products. This brand includes:
- Fat burn supplements
- Prebiotics
- Whey protein
- Appetite suppressants
Protandim For Dogs
Protandim Dogs (formally called Canine Health) is for pets. According to the LifeVantage website, this supplement contains 150 mg of the same ingredients as Protandim – as well as omega 3 fatty acids and collagen. The website goes on to say: “Reducing oxidative stress in dogs may reduce many of the disorders associated with aging in canine.” To support this, the organization states a 3rd party animal health company has found the supplement reduces oxidative stress in dogs.
Protandim vs. PB125
PB125, by Pathways Bioscience, is another supplement whose makers claim can reduce TBARS and activate NrF2. PB125 is the supplement by Dr. Joe McCord and associates. Recall Dr. McCord used to be associated with the LifeVantage company.
While PB125 is said to be the next generation of NrF2 activators, no studies have yet compared these supplements to each other to see which is better. The ingredients in both products are different for the most part.
See the PB125 Review for much more information.
Protandim vs. Tru Niagen
The Tru Niagen supplement boasts research showing it can raise NAD+ levels in humans. Tru Niagen is based on nicotniamide riboside a form of niacin (vitamin B3).
The idea of slowing aging by raising NAD+ is different than Protandim. So far no clinical studies have compared these supplements to each other. While the original Protandim does not contain nicotinamide riboside, the Life Vantage company does offer another version called the “NAD Synergizer” which contains niacin.
Protandim vs. Elysium Basis
Basis by Elysium is a popular anti-aging supplement that contains very different ingredients than Protandim. Like Tru Niagen, Elysium Basis also is an NAD+ booster supplement. So, which is better? Unfortunately, there are no head-to-head studies yet.
See the Elysuim Basis Review for more insights.
Protandim vs. SeroVital
You've probably seen TV ads for SeroVital. How does Protandim compare to SeroVital? Both supplements contain different ingredients and are touted to work differently.
While Protandim is said to help boost our bodies antioxidant enzymes, SeroVital is marketed to raise human growth hormone (HGH).
If we just look at the research, Protandim wins hands down. The makers of Serovital only have one study.
Where To Buy Protandim
This supplement is not sold in stores like Walmart, Target, Cosco, CVS, Walgreens, Kmart, or BJs. It's also not sold at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. Rather, it's mostly purchased from LifeVantage independent distributors.
It is also available online as well although when using a distributor, you may get the individualized attention you might not get by buying it yourself.
Protandim Price
According to the LifeVantage website, a one-month supply (30 capsules) costs $59.99 retail. If you order it through a LifeVantage distributor, it costs $49.99 – and that is on a monthly basis. In other words, that means auto-shipments. If you want to purchase one month only to test drive it first, speak to your LifeVantgage independent distributor.
Protandim Yearly Cost
Let's round the price up to $50 a month. In one year, the supplement would cost you $600. Shipping and tax may be extra. If you only want to order 1 bottle to try yourself, you can get it on Amazon too.
My Suggestions
If you can afford it, go ahead and give it a try for a month or so and see if you feel any better. If you really want to know for sure, get your TBARS measured first.
Remember, exercise will also reduce TBARS too.
Protandim Pro & Con
Here's a quick summary of what I liked and didn't like. These are my opinions. Yours may be different.
| Pro | Con |
|---|---|
| There are clinical studies on Protandim | Not all the studies are on humans |
| Company has been around a long time | Not available in stores |
| Company sponsors research on Protandim | Expensive |
| Lots of hype about benefits |
Does Protandim Work?
While I'm intrigued at the prospect of slowing down aging, I'm can't say for sure if Protandim works or not. The research is intriguing but in my opinion three's not enough human research yet to draw conclusions. So, does Protandim really work? Let's just say I'm looking forward to more human clinical studies.
Here is it is on Amazon If you want to check it out/see what others are saying
Wow. Just spent two hours reading this very interesting (pros & cons) on Protandim. Anyone considering taking it for health reasons would of course first do research, and no one can say that it is not available. Anything I consider ingesting is important to me, so the more research, the better.
This forum was led by someone with class who obviously knows people and their personalities. It was informative and in good taste. Thanks Joe. I intend to make your page one of my favorites.
Terry, thanks much and I really appreciate you saying that!
One comparison I would like to see is piperlongumine vs. Protandim effectiveness: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110717083300AAAAPM8
Presents an interesting topic of study
Cory, I agree it would be an interesting study to do.
Joe,
Check this site out about different topics on Nrf2. There’s a study that compares 4 different activators (Protandim one of them)…haven’t read it yet, but figured I’d point it out
Cory thanks
I’m all for synergistic with all five herbs working together..however..has anyone actually purchased the five herbs in powder form and ingested the same amount (let’s say 1 oz of each per day taken together)..and then have the Tbar test done? ( Tbar done before also) They say that each herb taken by itself doesn’t have any affect..but is it really some secret percentage of each herb taken together that makes it supposedly effective?
A friend has been pushing Protandim pretty hard recently, having become a distributor. He has given me handouts, brochures, and sends e-mails containing links to various studies (or “studies”), some of which you have cited here (including that ABC show). I found this site upon Goggling “Protandim reviews,” and I must say that I am glad to have discovered it. I will enter a bookmark (Firefox user) for future use.
I spent much more time than I could afford in scrolling down perhaps 60% of the way through all of the comments, replies, replies to replies, etc. I was particularly intrigued by the commentator “Simone,” who at last revealed him/herself (I’m not sure which) as a distributor. I am fascinated by the transformation, over many posts, of Simone from not-too-friendly/near-hostile to a calmed-down and near-submissive acolyte after you had done little more than be polite and continue, for the most part, to repeat the same things until either a skull was penetrated or a surrender occurred due to fatigue (I’m not sure which it was).
I much appreciate your almost obsessively (or so it seems) attempt to be as dispassionate and fair. Your approach is a breath of fresh air in a blog-and-website jungle of charges, counter-charges, accusations, insults, misdirection, defamation, truth-spinning, and bald lies. You have bent over backwards so far, in certain cases, as to give proof of your having attended contortionist school at some point. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din. I would have lost patience and fired a couple of 12-gauge barrels when the insults began rolling in, but you didn’t. My hat (even though I don’t wear one) is definitely off to you.
By the way, whatever deficiencies that poster “Dr. Bill” may have (and I don’t know of any), he is precisely right in his excellent if provocative description of the outrages perpetrated by most of these multi-level marketing outfits. There is only one that I know of that does not use those typical cultish techniques to drive their bottom line.
When I was younger, I was burned good and proper by that very large one headquartered in Michigan. It took me awhile, after leaving the “cult,” to rebuild relationships that had not been enhanced by doggedly persistent and incandescently irritating efforts I was encouraged to engage in by money-hungry up-lines who were masquerading on the one hand as beneficent friends of humanity and on the other as the founders of my impending wealth. Few were improved when they bought wildly overpriced household products that were good but not that good.
One other thing. Reference was made to your modesty in not calling yourself doctor, professor, his majesty, or whatever. It really doesn’t matter in the end. The internet, by its very nature, is a platform where falsehoods can masquerade as truth and where only a very few, or so it seems to me, will take the time to check on claims such as a double-PhD, research genius, winning the silver star, or any of the multitude of things so often lied about on-line.
You do yourself credit by using only your first name, as did Simone until he/she went on about supervising many doctors, etc. somewhere. Why don’t I assert that I supervised thousands of doctors, or mechanical engineers, or shoe salesmen? Who would ever know it was true or false without spending impossible amounts of time on the internet? Even then, the results probably would not be clear, and I would get away with it. (And, no, I did not supervise any shoe salesmen.)
For most of us, credibility on the internet is something that must be earned, not something that can be bought by asserting that we are this, that, or the other and hoping that at least some readers will fall down in worshipful awe at our exaltedness. From what I have seen in this 1.5-hour tour of this section of your site here, you seem a right candidate for candor.
Finally, “don’t criticize it until you try it”? Oh, please. Must we try, for example, Carter’s Little Liver Pills (as they were called before they were forced to drop the irrelevant and misleading “Liver”) in order to know they are fake or not? Why cannot Carter’s, or anyone else, furnish some decent credible evident that what they are pushing actually works? It is up to someone asserting that something is true to prove the truth, especially if the assertion potentially involves the transfer of money from someone’s pocket into the hands of the one making the claims.
Arvid, thank you very much for your very kind words. I am deeply humbled by your taking the time to write all that you did. Very much appreciated.
I found your critical review interesting. I am not affiliated with Protandim in anyway (either as a user or a distributor), however, I’ve been approached by family familiar with the product to take the product for overall health, but specifically due to my recent history of melanom (diagnosed and removed April 2012). I’ve been researching Protandim and came across your critical review. I haven’t made my final decision on the product and, forgive me, but since your review is fairly long with several references I will only have time to post a few of my observations/questions right now (more to come later I’m sure!).
I read your statement that “On the FAQ page of the product website, it’s said that the special way in which Protandim is made means that people would not get the same benefits if they just took each ingredient individually. As ‘proof’ of this, they state that ‘A scientific peer-reviewed study shows that Protandim produces a 300 percent increase in the antioxidant glutathione.’ But they don’t tell us the name of that study or where we can find it. So I Googled ‘Protandim glutathione’ and discovered that they are referring to a test tube study published in 2009 and not a study of humans.”
If you read the FAQ section on the Protandim website, the statement I found clearly stated the study they were referring to and it was NOT the 2009 “non-human” study but the 2006 study published in Free Radical Biology & Medicine 40 (2006) 341-347 (which you then cite later in your critique). The statement reads: “This scientific peer-reviewed study was published in the journal ‘Free Radical Biology and Medicine’ and it also clearly shows Protandim produces a 300 percent increase in glutathione, which is a key antioxidant and anti-aging factor.” I guess I’m confused as to why you write the site did not list the study. Granted the title was not written out, but it was much easier to Google “free radical biology and medicine protandim” which specific results than I imagine Googling “Protandim glutathione” was.
The 2006 study states that they used 29 subjects, your critique states they used 39. I’m not sure if yours is just a typo or if I read the study wrong, but under subsection “Materials and Methods” it reads: “Twenty-nine healthy volunteer subjects of both genders ranged in age from 20 to 78 years.”
As part of your observation of the 2006 study you note: “in the study above, Protandim didn’t reduce CRP levels. CRP is a measure of cellular inflammation. I feel this reduces claims by distributors that Protandim reduces inflammation.” However, while the study does state “No significant effects were seen in C-reactive protein levels overall,” it also goes on to state that only 4 subjects entered the study with elevated C-reactive protein and in three of those subjects there was a “trend toward reduction,” and suggested further study of this particular area would be justified. I’m a lawyer, not a scientist, but this study alone would not discount a claim that Protandim reduces inflammation but only points out that there weren’t enough people with increased C-reactive protein to render any results significant based on this study alone. Or am I off-base?
I also noted in your critique (and throughout the comments section to your critique) that on the one hand, you appear dubiously incredulous (a state I often find myself in!) that LifeVantage hasn’t done more human studies at their own expense; however, on the other hand, you appear to discount any study that involves or cites to one of the developers of Protandim, Dr. Joe McCord. This leaves me to wonder whether LifeVantage is better off allowing other facilities to continue researching Protandim’s effects on their own dime because any study put out by LifeVantage would be instantly discredited in your mind. I mean, your critique essentially questions whether poor John Quinones had his blood switched by the evil doctor during his primetime special.
For those (including myself) that want to independently research the effect of Protandim, you make a great suggestion to get a Lipid Peroxidase test done. If I ultimately decide to take Protandim (which I’m leaning toward), I definitely want to have independent, personalized data and I thank you for suggesting it.
I am leaning towards trying Protandim due to my history of melanoma and the beneficial effects found in mice as illustrated in the 2010 Study “The Chemopreventive Effects of Protandim: Modulation of p53 Mitochondrial Translocation and Apoptosis during Skin Carcinogenesis,” and in the 2011 Study “The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer;” and, the 2009 Study “Protandim, A Fundamentally New Antioxidant Approach in Chemoprevention Using Mouse Two-Stage Skin Carcinogenesis as a Model.” Although all were conducted on mice and I recognize the biological differences between mice and humans, I’m not so quick to discount a mouse study out-of-hand simply because mice were used (with regard to the 2009 Study, you didn’t even list any of the findings after pointing out it was a mouse study).
As we all know, mice are frequently used in experimentation because they’re numerous, cheap and can be under constant observation (seldom the case with human beings). I too found the 2011 study frustrating in that there was no mention (that I could find) as to how the Protandim was administered to mice and in what quantities, etc. However, due to the inherently safe and well-tested nature of the Protandim ingredients themselves, I don’t have safety concerns about trying the product on myself in any regard.
I found the 2010 Study much more in depth and informative and illuminating of positive results related to Protandim and skin cancer. Maybe it’s the “mouse thing” but you seemed quick to discount this Study and made some statements that don’t appear accurate. In your summary you write “This is a mouse study. Interestingly the word “mouse” never appears in the summary of this study.
You have to read the actual study to see that it used lab mice.” First, I don’t know what summary of the study you read, but the word “mouse” is clearly written in the Abstract of the Study, in the second sentence: “In addition, we have shown that tumor multiplicity and incidence can be decreased through the dietary administration of Protandim in the two-stage skin carcinogenesis MOUSE model.” When I read the abstract, I understood this to be a continuation of mouse studies based on the referral to a previous study.
Second, I would think scientists and anyone else interested in the product Protandim would actually read the study – so even if the word “mouse” wasn’t in the abstract (which it was) it’s mentioned several times throughout the study.
I find your observation to be odd – it’s as if you’re claiming the study was actively hiding the use of mice which is not the case at all. If yours is a truly critical, independent, study of Protandim why make comments like these? Are we to assume you are “hiding” things from us because you don’t regurgitate the entire studies you reference? I hope not.
dizzypru, I appreciate you writing and its fine if you take issue with some of the things I stated in my review. While I never say I am perfect I do believe my review to be one of the most complete on the web and I really am unbiased. As I’ve said before I would not criticize LV for doing their own research (I appreciate it when companies do this actually) but to be fair I do feel I should point out that they have a role in the research because I’d bet you a dollar if I didn’t say it, somebody would ask me about it – and so I try to be as complete as possible .
If I point out that “this is a mouse study” etc. its because if I don’t say specifically it, I will be asked about it. Trust me. I get asked all the time about things I have already put in my reviews. So I try to be as plain and readable as possible. if that comes off like I have an ax to grind, its unintentional.
As far as the sample sizes in some of the studies, it could be a typo by me or maybe I was quoting the number of people who started the study (vs completed the study). either way the small difference in study participants is minor in my view.
As for John Q and the TBAR test, Ive said I do not believe anything sneaky went on but from a scientific perspective it is bad science journalism to have the people selling the product run the blood test.
I don’t mind if you disagree with me and for what its worth, I do hope it helps you.
As an aside, I saw you put a website link in your comment. I clicked on it as a check and it said the site was removed, so I didn’t include it with your comment. Not sure if you plan on putting your website back on the web or not. just wanted to point that out.
Thanks for your response Joe. I also agree that the 29 versus 39 number in that study is a minor discrepancy – I just wanted to make sure I noted the difference in case I missed something; i.e.: I would have preferred 39 (your number) to 29 (study number) because the more people the better!. As far as the website goes, mine is just a simple blog crispier.wordpress.com and it’s still active. I’m not sure why you weren’t able to locate it.
In any event, I agree yours is the most complete critique on the web as far as Protandim is concerned. That’s probably why you’ve garnered so much attention! I think that’s great. As you know, criticism opens the door to criticism. I appreciate your efforts, I’m just one of those people that try to look research what I can where I can before I jump in (or not). I’m at that place right now in figuring out whether Protandim is worth the jump.
Dizzypru, I completely understand and it’s really true about criticism opening the door to criticism. Its never a problem with me though.
Funny thing about your website; I changed it to what you said your site was but when you leave a comment here, a totally different website pops up in the url area ie, “fazedotme.wordpress.com” – its in the other comment you just left also. weird. It doesn’t go anywhere.
Just wanted you to know about that in case you didn’t. Ill replace your other comment it with your real website also
Joe, thanks for your informative website. I am deciding right now whether to start taking Protandim or not. A friend gave me a bottle to try, but quite frankly I have always been a skeptic of supplements and how they are produced and manufactured. While doing my research I noticed that the product had been recalled just last month! That makes me even more nervous to take it. There was no mention of this in your blog, would you mind giving me your unbiased opinion on this?
Hi Marianna, Yes I’m aware of the recall on Protandim; they found small fragments of metal in some of the lots.
I didn’t update my blog with it because it seemed that LifeVantage, the makers of protandim, were taking the steps needed to recall the effected products. Since it was the first time I’ve heard of this with Protandim and it was handled pretty quickly, I decided not to mention it.
Your box should have some lot numbers on it. Ask your distributor friend for a list of the lot #s that were included by the recall and see if yours was one of the lots. Ask to see the #’s don’t take their word for it. Better yet, you can also call LifeVantage at 1-866-460-7241 or 1-801-432-9300 and tell them the lot # of the product you have and they can let you know.
Joe, you did a nice job reviewing this material. This area is a big area of interest for myself as I am a veterinarian and researcher. Here is the thing. Oxidative stress is a major issue regarding human and animal health. The ingredients in Protandim are not new and in many instances, individuals already consume them as individuals or in combinations. Does the product work? My guess is the answer is yes, but one has to remember that most people are undergoing oxidative stress due to a variety of health conditions and honestly, any increase in antioxidants would likely impact their situation.
Antioxidants come in many forms, as individuals or as herbs such as Green tea or Turmeric. The question would come as to if we had an individual with evident oxidative stress, would simply drinking 2-3 cups of green tea or taking some Turmeric capsules daily yield the same results?
In the end, Protandim makes claims that can be held to many herbs, not just their ingredients. Turmeric or curcumin is an NFR2 upregulator by itself, so it is not necessarily the combination of ingredients that makes it special.
It is always best to consume antioxidants in combination, as essentially they help to recharge one another, which may be why Protandim may see results, but one could also combine antioxidants and herbs themselves to achieve similar results.
Tom, thanks I appreciate that. one of the studies I’d love to see is what would happen if people took protandim vs taking the individual ingredients together. from what Ive heard LV says it wont work the same but I dont see any concrete proof. Protandim would appear to act differently if it caused us to ramp up our internal antioxdants systems vs traditional means of taking antioxdants, which some studies find downregulates our natural defenses.
Joe, to be forthright, as I mentioned, I am a veterinarian but also researcher. I have looked at oxidative stress in our patients and evaluated blood levels using a device called the FRAS-4 using serum. I have evaluated free radical levels and antioxidant potential in patients afflicted with a variety of conditions including cancer and even during surgical procedures, trying to evaluate the impact of anesthesia on these markers.
One of my biggest areas of interest is the inflammatory process and impact on overall health, which includes oxidative stress but is not limited to. In 2006, we published three small research trials evaluating an herbal blend that we created on inflammatory markers in the joints of horses afflicted with osteoarthritis. The nuts and the bolts of the findings were that we were able to reduce cytokine production within their joints after 30 days by using various herbs that downregulated the inflammatory pathway at a much higher level than prescription meds.
As a result of the trial, we began to use our formulas in our patients, horses and companion pets, and soon they were being requested across the country for other animals. During our research years, we evaluated protandim in some of our companion patients and had mixed results compared to our formulas.
Now, I am not here with the intent of discussing our formulas but if one is interested, let me know and I can expand. The point that you brought up is whether or not if an individual taking single nutrients or antioxidants could achieve similar results. I don’t know the answer directly, but I feel that if they were taken in the right combination, the answer would be yes.
Oxidative stress is a huge component to overall health and we see a rise in free radicals as well as a depletion in antioxidant reserves in patients with very minor health conditions. The more severe the health condition, the worse the depletion. You have to keep in mind other stressful events in our lives that contribute as well, in our practice we evaluated surgical stress, which depleted patients very rapidly. We use a lot of high dose intravenous Vitamin C in our cancer patients and have found that adding this to the fluids during surgical procedures can improve outcomes and overall recovery.
We have to look beyond just oxidative stress and visualize the impact of inflammation in general. One marker is acute phase proteins or one that is more easily measured in our equine patients is insulin levels. We can have a horse present with an acute tendon or orthopedic injury and demonstrate insulin resistance on blood work, when in normal settings that patient is not insulin resistant. Why? Because that acute inflammatory cascade along with acute oxidative stress impacts many aspects of physiology and can impair long term recovery.
I think that antioxidants are vital to our health, but the question is what form is best and in what combination? One has to remember that once an antioxidant donates an electron to an unstable free radical, it then becomes unstable itself and needs other antioxidants to ‘recharge’ it or it becomes an oxidant essentially. Are antioxidants best in their natural form, i.e. through food or herbs or are they best in the synthetic form? I feel they are best in their natural forms, thus am a proponent of herbs that provide antioxidant activity, and there are many of them. Protandim claims to be an NRF2 activator, but as I mentioned before, there are many herbs that are NRF2 activators, alone or in combination. The benefits, in my eyes, is that many herbs are antioxidants, NRF2 activators and even some are NF-kB down regulators, which impacts cytokine production.
We have to remember general nutrition is vital as well and we use other nutritive herbs in our formulas to balance out the patient. There are many minerals, vitamins and even protein that we all need on a daily basis to ensure health, which is important along side of the antioxidants and herbs.
Sorry to ramble on. I am always in favor of products that improve health and unfortunately, the success of many of them is a reflection of how poor our health is in the end. We have patients that respond very quickly to our formulas, which is reflection of their overall depletion, while others so minimal to no response, which again attests to their health. I am also a firm believer in education, as you are, and applaud your efforts. We put out a blog, generally weekly, for our customers and clients to help educate on many topics.
Again, I am not here to push or tout our products but if you are interested, let me know or email me directly.
Thanks.
Tom
Tom, thanks and as you eluded to, all this is extremely complicated, which makes it fun to investigate. Im known to ramble a bit myself on occasion 😉
JOE
HAVE YOU TRIED PROTANDIM PERSONALLY???
HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY OF THE 5 INGREDIENTS IN PROTANDIM?
HAVING M.S. FOR ALMOST 15 YEARS AND HAVE BEEN TAKING 3 OUT OF TH 5 INGREDIENTS OR PROTANDIM FOR YEARS, I HAVE AND MY NEUROLOGIST HAVE NOTICED A BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY M.S.
I FEEL THAT WITH ALL THE GMO’S AND CHEMICALS IN OUR FOODS, WATER, AIR, AND ENVIRONMENT, OUR BODY IS REACTING NEGITAVELY TOWARDS IT.
I BELIEVE ONE OF OUR DEFENSE IS TAKING ANTI-OXIDANTS.
-MARTY
P.S. I AM NOT A DISTRIBUTOR OF PROTANDIM NOR A DOCTOR. I JUST DO PERSONAL TESTING ON MYSELF WITH ALL SORTS OF VITAMINS, MINERALS, AND HERBS.
Hi Martin, I haven’t tried it but if you read the comments above (go back a couple of weeks) you will see what happened when I offered to test protandim on myself.
Here’s one I found recently: website link removed
Cory, that website is a distributor site and as such isn’t unbiased.
Preface: this is a link to a distributor’s site. If you check the patient’s ID #, it’s the same on both result pages so no funny business should be happening here.
Want to share this if no one has seen it so far: website link removed
One 30yr old had a lipid peroxidation test done before and after taking Protandim. Small evidence, but I thought it was interesting since I haven’t encountered picture evidence of someone else’s test thus far
Cory, its interesting but as you said its a person who sells protandim. Did you find any unbiased sites by people who do not sell protandim?
Guess I need to keep looking. Your blog is the best discussion panel sofar
I appreciate the article so much. I have a neighbor (who is a doctor) literally harrassing me over joining her “team” to promote and sell this product. I am so skeptical over these things as I also have Body by Vi neighbors. Before I take or promote any supplement I like to have all the facts. I am always curious when there are financial incentives linked to any supplement.
I do find it interesting that a “whois” search of abcliveit.com comes back with the result “NOT FOUND
” or “Private” … This, normally, is readily available information on the registrant of a website. An email address @domainsbyproxy is listed as the contact email address.
I have a relative (in-law) who is a distributor and, although I don’t believe any of the “science” behind it, this relative has posted that same website on facebook, etc…
I also find it unusual that a link to the abc news story cannot be found on the lifevantage website. It would seem that this company, whose distributors want people to find the video, would have it posted there for all to see.
Chris, I did the same thing and also noticed that the ABC live it website was private.
Joe, Thank you for that. I noticed that in many of your critical reviews that you actually tried the product. For example 5 hour energy. Why not Protandim? There are many MD’s and Naturopathics that I have spoken with that would strongly disagree with your criticism of the research. I Spoke with a Professor that teaches Herbal herbal healing in Hawaii that supports the research findings. By the way many of these Doctors and Herbalist are NOT affiliated with Life Vantage. I respect your education, but how can your opinion and theirs be so different?
Bob, if you read the comments, you would have seen that I was very willing to do something I’ve never done before – test protandim with a FULL blood test – including TBARS. I was going to pay for ALL the medical tests out of pocket. All I asked was for someone to give me a month supply for free. Simone, a protandim distributor who I was talking with would not do it unless I agreed to letting Simone give input on where I did TBAR testing, which I would not do. When I said no Simone then agreed to only sell me a sample. After that I lost my taste and decided I was no longer interested in testing protandim personally.
Im glad you have spoken to others who like protandim but for me it doesn’t matter how many MDs, herbalists etc. say it works, none of them can deny the fact that of the 13 published studies, 85% of them (11 studies) are non-human. And of the 2 human studies that are currently available, only 1 study has shown it works. These facts are not debatable.
Of course I will always keep an open mind if more research becomes available but for now I’ll let the facts speak for themselves and not worry about what others think or say.
This is basic herbal and vitamin treatment. Homeopathic? I think it is a rip off with no scientific facts. It is a food supplement only. Another gouging gimmick typical of Utah Valley vitamin Industry..
Sincerely,
A Utah MD.
Dear Simone,
Take a chill pill. Joe – keep up the good work.
Thanks Bob.
Joe
Thanks for doing this research. A Protandim distributor approached me last April about the product wanting me to jump on board as a seller. (BTW – it costs about $685 to get on board but that includes a year’s supply of Protandim so it’s not a bad deal if you’re into multi-level marketing.) He kept harping on the peer review studies as proof this works. Being 58, I had seen a lot of these things come and go so I looked up the studies and even though they were all Greek to me I did see that in 11 out of 12 of the studies the “peers” included the Dr. and others who were involved with the company. That made me suspicious.
However, I have chronic sinusitis and nasal polyps and about a month before hearing about PT I had started taking turmeric and had tremendous results in alleviating an excessive flow of mucus when I was sleeping. Seeing that turmeric is of the ingredients and checking out the claims from other sources on the other herbs I went ahead and started taking PT. Well, here it is 10 months later and I cannot say that it has done anything for me. At this point I am going to stop taking it for at least a month to see if I note any changes (I will, however, keep taking the turmeric by itself – something that I did in all along – the results were far too good).
I found it interesting that the guy who originally turned me on to this admitted that he had taken it for 2 years and had not seen any specific benefit (other than that his fingernails grew faster – finally a cure for slow growing fingernails!) He said, though, that he was convinced, based on the weight of the ABC report, the peer reviews (which, admittedly he did not understand at all) and Donny Osmond’s doctor, that he would live much longer. I hope he does but whether PT is the cause may never be known.
One final note, I got my shipment of PT in the mail yesterday and included was a 4 page flier about the wonders of the multi-level marketing program. But there was not ONE WORD about the benefit of the product itself. It reminds me of so many of the past MLM programs (Amway, etc.) where the emphasis is all on the marketing program and little or nothing on the product itself.
Perhaps someone should do a doctoral study on the group-think of MLM programs. It seems with all these things the concern for the validity of the product becomes lost in the cacophony of the MLM cheerleaders addressing the mobs. Lemmings running off a cliff comes to mind..
GeoffD, thanks for writing and I also hope your friend lives a long and healthy life.
Geoff, You can become a distributor for $50. Your friend is showing you the more expensive way to join which includes a lot of product. He should explain the other.
K..Lee
Check the FAQ page on the LV page. One of the questions is about who should not take Protandim.
“- Are there situations where Protandim is not recommended? You should consult your physician before taking Protandim when dealing with autoimmune diseases…”
I don’t think PT does squat, but take this under consideration as a guinea pig.
Joe
If you ever have the chance to review Dr. McCord’s statements about his discovery of Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) back in 1969 I think you might see things more clearly. He discovered that SOD was in every living thing that used oxygen to include plants and animals etc. Only some forms of ecoli which did not use oxygen did not have SOD but adding human cells to it changed the ecoli so that they had SOD as well.
SOD was found to scavenge free radicals in plants and animals who used oxygen. I’m sure you have checked out the Wikipedia explanation of the Cresson Medal where along with his professor Irwin Fridovich Dr. McCord was awarded this medal for their discovery of SOD in 1997. SOD is an enzyme that catalyzes the dismutation of superoxide into oxygen and hydrogen peroxide. Thus, they are an important antioxidant defense in nearly all cells exposed to oxygen.
Why is this important in this discussion? The studies of mice, rats, humans etc are important because they show that Protandim works by turning on SOD so as to scavenge free radicals in animals who use oxygen to live. These are not isolated studies. They are done with cancer cells, bad heart cells, etc. In all cases Protandim has shown that it is addressing the claim that it makes: scavenging free radicals.
It is not saying it will heal cancer, or MS, or Parkinson’s disease etc. It is only saying that it decreases oxidative stress. These studies all show that it does reduce oxidative stress in animals who use oxygen which include people. It affects each person differently because it is just reducing oxidative stress. A person might not “feel” anything or they might be impacted in a way that is tangible but in all cases it is reducing oxidative stress.
The pubmed studies show as well as the Biogen study that Protandim is more importantly also a NRF2 activator, NRF2 is a protein, which wakes up every cell in your body. In any case, I think you are missing the point of what Protandim is doing and what the studies indicate.
Simone, I did not read the stuff on the discovery of SOD as I am moving forward with other reviews I want to write. As I’ve said before I’m very open to the possibility that Protandim might be one of best supplements out there today. The research does seem to show something is happening, but what is the clinical significance of that, I do not know.
I still can’t get by the fact that there are only 2 human studies on this product.
You are so biased for protandum… so obvious.Certainly not credible at all. Have a feeling all your posts are by one writer…YOU.