Protandim Review: Research & Side Effects

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1. LIZ MERRILL says

   January 4, 2018 at 12:48 pm

   I KNOW OF ONE INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS TAKEN PROTANDIM, FOR AN EXTENDED LENGTH OF TIME, AND STILL SUFFERED A DEBILITATING STROKE… SO GO FIGURE. THIS GARBAGE PRODUCT IS ALL ABOUT MARKETING, AND INFLATED COSTS FOR A WORTHLESS SUPPLEMENT, YOU CAN FORMULATE YOURSELF FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR!

   Reply

2. Thelma Box says

   December 26, 2017 at 3:18 pm

   I did not find where to order this product?

   Reply

   • Joe says

     December 26, 2017 at 6:10 pm

     Hi Thelma Here is protandim on amazon

     Reply

3. claudia roulier says

   November 7, 2017 at 3:30 pm

   Momma T don’t think you would be here commenting if you had no connection to the product, color me skepitical…..not Vogel

   Reply

   • Steve Jackson says

     November 11, 2017 at 8:24 pm

     Claudia,

     Vogel, aka Brian C. MacFarland is an MLM attacker that builds traffic to his site by fabricating facts and deceitfully presenting mis-truths about various companies. He was sued by LifeVantage, tried to get the case thrown out, only to have it stick all the way up to the California Supreme Court. He is disgruntled and has an axe to grind.

     Protandim is clinically proven to lower oxidative stress by 40% in 30 days. And truly, if anyone understands the role that many health experts allege that oxidative stress plays in over 175 diseases, they should strongly consider taking steps to lower their oxidative stress with or without Protandim. For me, for $40 plus tax and shipping, I chose Protandim. I am a LifeVantage Distributor.

     Reply

     • Vogel says

       November 12, 2017 at 10:55 pm

       Steve Jackson said: “Claudia, Vogel, aka Brian C. MacFarland is an MLM attacker that builds traffic to his site by fabricating facts and deceitfully presenting mis-truths about various companies.”

       I am not MacFarland; I don’t have a website; and If I did have one, then posting here wouldn’t drive traffic to it; and Claudia is not an idiot. You fail epically every time you try to make an argument and you continually reveal yourself to be horrifically dishonest.

       Steve Jackson said: “Protandim is clinically proven to lower oxidative stress by 40% in 30 days.

       You keep clinging to that lie despite the fact that you know full well that 3 consecutive randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials have now definitively proven that PROTANDIM DOES NOT LOWER OXIDATIVE STRESS AT ALL.
       https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125
       https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339
       https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

       Reply

       • Steve Jackson says

         November 13, 2017 at 1:48 pm

         Vogel aka Brian C. MacFarland, you are completely dishonest and deceitful. Further, you continuously attack and harass people for posting in anonymity, however, you outright refuse to positively identify yourself. Not only are you dishonest, but you are a total hypocrite!

         I have painstakingly pointed out numerous flaws and outright lies in your arguments, and instead of addressing where you were absolutely and unequivocally proven wrong, you avoid those points altogether.

         I on the other hand will address each of the studies that you keep linking people to and misinterpreting:
         https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125 – The alcohol study

         This study was for 7 days. 7 Days is an insufficient amount of time to judge the efficacy of Protandim. Further, this study was to see if Protandim influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrepulmonary oxidative stress with human subjects WITH alcohol use disorders. And since Protandim’s clinically proven study conducted over 30 days, not 7 days – this study has no bearing on whether Protandim works for reducing oxidative stress. Please stop posting links that really have no impact on your argument. Anyone can see what you are trying to do when you do that.

         https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339 – The Runner’s Study

         Again, you are misleading people about the results of this study. Why not post the final conclusions?
         In conclusion, this study demonstrated the following:

         1. As a whole, regular supplementation of Protandim® (675 mg/day for 88 days) did not improve 5-km time trial performance in regional class runners compared to placebo.
         2. Regular supplementation of Protandim® (675 mg/day for 88 days) did not reduce oxidative stress as assessed by serum lipid peroxides (TBARS) in a rested, fasting state compared to placebo.
         3. Regular supplementation of Protandim® (675 mg/day for 88 days) increased the antioxidant enzyme SOD by two-fold in subgroup of older subjects (≥ 35 years), compared to only a 50% increase in the placebo group.
         4. The 5-km time trials did not acutely increase mean TBARS as a whole, but it did increase by an average of 20% in half of the subjects.
         5. Regular supplementation of Protandim® did not reduce the increase in global oxidative damage post-race compared to pre-race in the subgroup of runners who showed increases in TBARS from 5-km running.
         6. Regular supplementation of Protandim® did not improve, nor worsen, quality of life in runners.
         7. The large variability in the measures of circulating oxidative stress markers and antioxidants warrant the identification of more robust assays, and that the pre-post samples are measured on the same assay.

         Now, since you have a penchant for molesting the facts when it comes to Protandim. Let me digest the findings for you. Young, healthy runner’s do not represent the broad spectrum of people who have elevated levels of oxidative stress to begin with. Conclusion two is what you are pointing out when you say Protandim doesn’t work. But the fact is, Protandim is an anti-aging supplement and the study concluded in conclusion #3 that regular supplementation of Protandim increased the antioxidant enzyme Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) by two-fold in the subgroup of older subjects. Compared to only a 50% increase in the placebo group.

         The study, as almost all studies, do when there is a POSITIVE result that could be of benefit, states that future studies are warranted to examine antioxidant enzyme concentrations in blood in older subjects (remember, this is an anti-aging product) compared to younger subjects after Protandim supplementation. This would verify that blood SOD is indeed improved with Protandim supplementation and limit false positive findings
         .
         So, CLEARLY, Protandim didn’t make the runners faster! No one has ever made that claim. But SOD production in the Protandim group being twice that of the placebo group is HUGE! Because obviously, you have no clue what SOD is or does. The more SOD you have in your body, the better equipped your body is to combat the effects of oxidative stress. SOD eliminates free radicals on a 1:1,00,00 basis while antioxidtants from foods eliminate free radicals on a 1:1 basis.

         https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797 – influence of Nrf2 activators on subcellular muscle protein.

         This is the study that I think you are most excited about, but you don’t want to explain the science (You refer to the markers that were tested, which were not the same markers tested to prove oxidative stress reduction in previous Protandim studies. So, in this study, different oxidative stress markers were used and they didn’t show as great an activation of select Nrf2 targets as they would have expected (but they did show a reduction). However, they do state that it is possible that these compounds also act through additional pathways such as mitogen-activated protein kinases (MAPK) and phosphatidylinositol-3 kinase (PI3K). That is probably why the reduction was not as great as they would have expected.
         But you TOTALLY miss the boat on what the findings of the study suggest!! You once again, AVOID anything positive concluded as a result of the study that you say supports that Protandim is not beneficial in any way.

         Yet – this is what the key statement in the beginning of the study says:

         “After Protandim, the ratio of protein to DNA synthesis tended to be greater in the myofibrillar fraction and maintained in the mitochondrial and cytoplasmic fractions, emphasizing the importance of measuring both protein and DNA synthesis to gain insight into proteostasis. Overall, these data suggest that Protandim may enhance proteostatic mechanisms of skeletal muscle contractile proteins after 6 weeks of milk protein feeding in older adults.” This means, that Protandim has been found to enhance the skeletal muscles in older humans!

         And if that isn’t enough – read the implications and conclusions of the study that you cite says:

         Implications and conclusions

         With increasing age, there is an increase in oxidative stress and inflammation and a decline in myofiber (Ochala et al. 2007) and mitochondrial (Coen et al. 2013; Santanasto et al. 2015) function. CLA decreased systemic oxidative stress and skeletal muscle oxidative damage despite no change in skeletal muscle protein or DNA synthesis rates. Therefore, CLA may have positive health effects in patients with high levels of oxidative stress and oxidative damage but warrants additional research. Interventions that can maintain both myofibrillar and mitochondrial muscle protein syntheses may be effective at delaying the onset of sarcopenia and maintaining physical function. Enhanced myofibrillar proteostasis after

         Protandim could have clinical implications in maintaining skeletal muscle fiber size and function with increasing age. Although this study examined skeletal muscle protein and DNA syntheses in response to 6 weeks of milk protein feeding, which is an extended timeframe compared to commonly used measurements of acute responses to a single meal, the long-term effects of Protandim or CLA remain unknown. Future inquiry should investigate if combining the effects of exercise, milk protein feeding, and potential slowed-aging treatments could have synergistic effects in improving proteostatic mechanisms associated with extended health span.

         Let’s state that again: “Enhanced myofibrillar proteostasis after Protandim could have clinical implications in maintaining skeletal muscle fiber size and function with increasing age” Hmmm, what is Protandim? An anti-aging supplement.

         Why don’t you tell the ENTIRE story? No, that wouldn’t be truthful and you have already shown that you are a coward for not identifying yourself while harassing people in this blog for their handles and anonymity. You have been proven wrong on multiple lies and misrepresentations yet never admit or address them when you are called out.

         You were wrong about the Runner’s study, you were wrong about Virginia’s and Oho State’s status in the Medical Research and WAY off about Ohio State’s #11 Bio-engineering department. And, while I paint the entire picture and acknowledge that the Skeletal study didn’t show as much of a reduction as in the oxidative stress markers used in this study, you fail to acknowledge that not all gene need up-regulation or down-regulation. Sometimes, up-regulation can be beneficial and other times, depending on the gene, it can have negative consequences in the body. What should be noted here is the ultimate conclusion, that Protandim enhances myofibrillar proteostastis and could have clinical implications in maintaining skeletal muscle fiber size and function with increasing age.”

         This a profound finding. But, the statement that Protandim reduces oxidative stress by an average of 40% in 30 days DID NOT have to be taken down after the FDA review and audit of LifeVantage’s marketing practices. You will notice that statement remains on the revised websites AFTER being reviewed by the FDA.

         So, clearly, the science behind this statement was sufficient for the FDA auditors but somehow is not valid enough for a “Vogel.” So, little bird, you don’t report the full story and you negatively attack people like Momma-T for not posting her full name, when you won’t even post your full name. Your lies and hypocrisy are of epic proportion and I am not sure why you are so bent on doing so.

         Once again, you and your lies and half-truths are exposed for what they are.

         Reply

         • Vogel says

           November 14, 2017 at 9:47 pm

           Steve Jackson said: “Vogel aka Brian C. MacFarland you are completely dishonest and deceitful.”

           Making blind assertions that I am “Brian” is a simpleton’s tactic and it is you who is being “dishonest and deceitful” by repeatedly resorting to this pathetic ad hominem attack.

           Steve Jackson said: “Further, you continuously attack and harass people for posting in anonymity…”

           Not at all, I simply point out the lack of credibility of anonymous claims alleging that Protandim has miraculous disease-alleviating effects, especially considering that the research proves it doesn’t do what it is advertised to do (i.e., lower oxidative stress). That’s pretty basic. No anonymous commenter has a right to get indignant about that, nor do you, as it’s plain old commonsense. Also, distributors are barred from making such claims both by US law and the terms of their distributor agreements, as you are well aware. Yet they do it anyway en masse.

           Steve Jackson said: “you outright refuse to positively identify yourself. Not only are you dishonest, but you are a total hypocrite!”

           I didn’t outright refuse anything. I never entertained the idea of doing so for even a second because you have no reason to make such a bizarre request. I don’t see you asking anyone else here to reveal their identity, and you haven’t posted your distributor ID# or any identifying details other than your generic nom de guerre. The hypocrisy is all yours.

           Steve Jackson said: “I have painstakingly pointed out numerous flaws and outright lies in your arguments”

           No, you haven’t done so remotely even once. You have tried to dodge every single argument with false statements and misdirection, and for some reason you think that calling me “Brian” constitutes a credible rebuttal. It’s as silly as if I were to try to discredit your posts by repeatedly referring to you as Paul Myhill.

           Steve Jackson said: “The alcohol study… was for 7 days. 7 Days is an insufficient amount of time to judge the efficacy of Protandim.”

           No it’s not and you can’t just invent claims like that out of thin air simply because they sound like convenient excuses; you have to have evidence or expert opinion to back it up. In reality, the evidence proves you to be wrong. The original Nelson et al. trial on Protandim (albeit a small poorly-designed non-randomized, non-controlled trial by LifeVantage employees) published in 2006 presented data showing that the effect of Protandim on oxidative stress (TBARS) was near maximal by day 5 (Figure 3 page 345), and the authors said so explicitly: i.e., “Fig. 3 shows that the response of plasma TBARS is fairly rapid, with most of the change having occurred by 5 to 12 days”. That just couldn’t be a clearer refutation of the nonsensical excuse you are trying to peddle
           http://www.inspireactiontoday.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2006-FRBM-Protandim-Study-full-study.pdf

           It’s also noteworthy that in the “alcohol study”, as you call it, Protandim was given at double (1350 mg/day) the normal dose recommended on the bottle label (625 mg/day) and used in the Nelson study. Accordingly, if the product wasn’t ineffective, 1 week would have been more than sufficient to show an effect on TBARS in the “alcohol study”. And if it wasn’t sufficient, it would beg the question as to why LifeVantage would bother to execute the study knowing that the time frame was insufficient, and also why the authors of the study did not raise your excuse about the time frame being a limiting factor. You are again vainly grasping at straws and your assertions are demonstrably false and deceptive.
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125

           Steve Jackson said: “The Runner’s Study. Again, you are misleading people about the results of this study.”

           I said nothing whatsoever about the study that was even remotely misleading. Again, this study also showed that Protandim had no effect on oxidative stress. The authors stated:

           “There was no change in TBARS, SOD, or GPX (at rest) after three months of Protandim® supplementation compared to placebo.”
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339

           It’s amusing to watch you go through all these contortions instead of simply admitting that simple fact. As for the rest of what you said about the study, I’ll simply refer people back to what I posted previously, since there’s no point retyping the same thing over and over or indulging your attempts at misdirection.
           http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150211
           http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150168

           Steve Jackson said: “Influence of Nrf2 activators on subcellular muscle protein — This is the study that I think you are most excited about, but you don’t want to explain the science.”

           None of their studies “excite” me, nor should they. They merely serve as potential sources of useful information. I explained what was relevant about the study’s findings in great detail already and I’m under no obligation to proactively spoon-feed you lessons on research analysis. Try going to school, as do the people who actually know what they’re talking about.
           http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150369

           Steve Jackson said: “You refer to the markers that were tested, which were not the same markers tested to prove oxidative stress reduction in previous Protandim studies. So, in this study, different oxidative stress markers were used…”

           Incorrect. In fact, all 3 of the RCTs measured oxidative stress using the TBARS method (as did the original shoddy study by Nelson et al.) and all 3 showed the same thing – failure.
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330762/
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5411371/

           The finding is about as close to irrefutable as one ever gets in biomedical research. The failure of Protandim to lower oxidative stress topples the fundamental pillar on which the product’s marketing is based; ergo, you have an essentially worthless product on your hands.

           Steve Jackson said: “The statement that Protandim reduces oxidative stress by an average of 40% in 30 days DID NOT have to be taken down after the FDA review and audit of LifeVantage’s marketing practices. You will notice that statement remains on the revised websites AFTER being reviewed by the FDA. So, clearly, the science behind this statement was sufficient for the FDA auditors but somehow is not valid enough for a “Vogel.”.”

           Jeez, you just couldn’t resist finishing off with one last blatant lie. The FDA’s jurisdiction doesn’t extend to such routine marketing claims; that is the FTCs jurisdiction. The FDA and the FTC don’t perform any routine reviews of marketing claims and the onus for truthfulness is on the marketers. The FDA only intervenes in response to reports of potential violations, as they did in the case of LifeVantage’s websites which were found to contain illegal claims implying that the product could alleviate cancer, Alzheimer’s, diabetes, etc. The FDA most certainly did not perform any kind of audit of the LifeVantage’s marketing practices” as you alleged. In fact the FDAs warning letter to the company explicitly stated the opposite:

           “The above violations are not meant to be an all-inclusive list of violations in connection with your products. It is your responsibility to ensure that your products comply with the Act and its implementing regulations.”
           https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcementactions/warningletters/2017/ucm554234.htm

           “The Act” refer to t21 U.S.C. 352(f)(1), which pertains to illegal misbranding of unapproved products as drugs (i.e., claiming that they alleviate disease and symptoms). Your suggestion that the FDA blessed the “40% in 30 days” claim is utterly absurd and painfully dishonest.

         • JJ says

           December 9, 2017 at 7:07 pm

           I think this is the award Steve was referring to: Elliott Cresson Medal

       • Steve Jackson says

         November 16, 2017 at 2:05 pm

         Little Bird,

         You totally did call out Momma T – who indicated she is not a LifeVantage Distributor or even consumer of the product. And since questioned your nasty tone and qualification, or lack thereof, you called into question her intelligence for simply inquiring as to what many of us are wondering. Who are you? I think that is pretty certain even though you won’t admit it. And, further, what qualifications do you have? Because you can post all the links that you want, but twisting the information in posts doesn’t bring anyone closer to the truth about the effectiveness of Protandim.

         Dr. McCord won the Elllington award for innovation for the discovery of Superoxide Dismutase. He is much more qualified to teach people about cellular function than you are. If you have watched the Ohio State University video by Dr. McCord, easy to find on youtube, you will see that Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.

         https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167278

         You can look up Dr. McCord’s youtube recap of the study. But the findings are quite remarkable.

         Of course, you will fake greater knowledge of the study than Dr. McCord, and claim he is behind a big scam of a publicly traded company. Which means that the investors didn’t understand the science correctly and the tens of thousands of repeat Protandim users worldwide are ALL in placebo mode. Get real little bird.

         You can attack the science all you want, but those of us who have actually tried the product and seen tremendous results and then gone off of Protandim only to have oxidative stress issues trigger more problems KNOW what Protandim works in lowering oxidative stress.

         You can argue clinical studies all you want, but I am going to take Dr. McCord, a Duke PHD and Ellington award winner’s word over some little anonymous bird who clearly has an axe to grind. Yes, it would be nice if there were larger human studies done across multiple specific medical illnesses. But the fact is, the Protandim benefits for me have been spectacular. Having tried a multitude of dietary supplements and pharmaceuticals to help me with RA and chronic pain and have Protandim lower my oxidative stress not just once, but twice for me is all the proof I need personally. And I am aware that someone else might not experience the same results, but let’s say you are right, that me and the tens of thousands that take this product monthly are all experiencing a placebo effect. Your advice to people is all those tens of thousands of people who take Protandim monthly and are experiencing an improved overall health benefit, are ALL liars and deceitful people. That, little bird, is ridiculous. And if you don’t believe me about the number of people taking Protandim monthly, download the company’s 10k report, which I am sure you already have.

         There are multiple Cardiologists who are involved with Protandim and NOT because they needed the money – they were fine. Dr. Mark Brown was not only impressed with the science, but with the RESULTS that he experienced as well as the people he subsequently provided it to. Yes, he became a distributor, but youtube his video testimonial, and you will see he was against it at first. And then he took the time to review the science, became a consumer, and then a distributor.

         You are not qualified to review clinical research and even if you were, you clearly have an axe to grind against LifeVantage. I KNOW for myself that Protandim works. You haven’t even tried the Protandim – or if you have, you never answered the question – not surprising.

         So, in the little bird’s world, 10’s of thousands of people enjoying the benefits of Protandim are all experiencing a placebo effect. Statistically, that isn’t even possible.

         Protandim works – on everyone – I don’t know – based on the research available so far, it seems that it is more likely that Protandim does lower oxidative stress in the body than it doesn’t. More human trials are needed to nail down a better understanding of the effectiveness and get a better understanding of the effective rates. But it has helped me twice with chronic arthritis and joint pain/RA. So, it is batting 100% effective in my case. I don’t know if that will be the case for others, but the science, to date, does indeed point in that direction. There is more research needed, but, again, 10’s of thousands of monthly users all can’t be experiencing a placebo effect.

         So, you can bash the science and Dr. McCord all you want little bird, but the fact is there are 10’s of thousands of people taking Protandim every month.

         I agree more research is needed, but while you bash LifeVantage, I will be living a better life as a result of Protandim, coaching and playing basketball, officiating sports, running, doing PIYO and enjoying my family. Something, which I truly hope for your family’s sake is something that you are capable of doing. Your bitter tone leads me to question that.

         You are a clever and deceitful person who hides behind the handle Vogel, I’ll give you that. But anyone who examines the exchanges on this blog is truly going to question your nastiness. Your need to slam anyone that doesn’t agree with your position. Each to their own. But like I said, I will be enjoying the benefits of Protandim for hopefully a very long time to come.

         I am sure you know how to watch youtube. I expect your next post will be as toxic as the previous ones. You should really get that looked at.

         Reply

         • Vogel says

           November 16, 2017 at 7:05 pm

           Steve Jackson said: “Dr. McCord won the Elllington award…”

           “ROFL! No he didn’t. No such award exists.”

           Steve Jackson said: “He is much more qualified to teach people about cellular function than you are.”

           Maybe so and maybe not, but we’re discussing Protandim here, not trying to give lessons on cellular function, and you don’t have a clue what my qualifications are; probably best that you stop obsessing about them and learn to fight your own battles because McCord isn’t here to bail you out. He took LifeVantage’s blood money and then ran for the hills, never to be heard from again.

           Steve Jackson said: “You will see that Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.”

           That might be of mild interest if anyone here were culturing saphenous veins ex vivo, but they’re not. What we’re talking about is what people can expect when taking Protandim. The research conclusively proves that even the most basic of claims about the product (i.e., that it lowers oxidative stress) are false.

           Steve Jackson said: “Of course, you will fake greater knowledge of the study than Dr. McCord, and claim he is behind a big scam of a publicly traded company.”

           I don’t need to fake knowledge and it doesn’t take much to blow apart the Protandim charade given that all of their RCTs showed the product doesn’t lower oxidative stress. McCord could have an IQ of 200 and it still wouldn’t change the fact that Protandim doesn’t lower oxidative stress. You’re desperately resorting to the fallacious argument from authority – very telling!
           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

           Steve Jackson said: “You can attack the science all you want, but those of us who have actually tried the product and seen tremendous results and then gone off of Protandim only to have oxidative stress issues trigger more problems KNOW what Protandim works in lowering oxidative stress.”

           I’m not “attacking the science” per se; I am quoting it. Your opinion takes a distant backseat to the 3 randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials proving that Protandim doesn’t lower oxidative stress. In fact, it’s really moronic to keep doubling down on your losing argument given the preponderance of evidence proving otherwise.
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

           Steve Jackson said: “Yes, it would be nice if there were larger human studies done across multiple specific medical illnesses.”

           No, in fact it would be horrifically unethical to conduct any studies of Protandim in people with actual diseases, given that the product doesn’t even lower oxidative stress. It would probably be a violation of the Declaration of Helsinki and it’s unlikely that any review board in the country would ever sanction such a study. LifeVantage has had over a decade and they haven’t done a single study that looked at disease therapy; and they never will. The purpose of their pseudo-research program is merely to give know-nothing blowhard desperados some papers to hide behind while they’re trying to swindle people into joining a pyramid scheme.

           Steve Jackson said: “let’s say you are right, that me and the tens of thousands that take this product monthly are all experiencing a placebo effect.”

           I don’t know anything about the phantom “tens of thousands that take this product monthly” that you speak of because there is no evidence they exist. In your case, I wouldn’t attribute anything to a placebo effect when straight up lying is the much simpler explanation. Occam’s razor. BTW, repeatedly crowing about the “tens of thousands” of people is yet another fallacious argument (argumentum ad populum).
           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

           Steve Jackson said: “Your advice to people is all those tens of thousands of people who take Protandim monthly and are experiencing an improved overall health benefit, are ALL liars and deceitful people.”

           Again, there aren’t tens of thousands of people here or anywhere else making claims that they had any benefits whatsoever.

           Steve Jackson said: “You are not qualified to review clinical research and even if you were, you clearly have an axe to grind against LifeVantage.”

           So which is it? You’ve been lamenting for days that you don’t know what my credentials are and you repeatedly asked me to provide them to you, and yet now you’re saying it wouldn’t matter what my credentials are. Clearly, you’re the one with an axe to grind. You can’t weasel your way out of the damning airtight evidence so you rely on misdirection and logical fallacies in an attempt to distract and whitewash.

           Steve Jackson said: “Protandim works – on everyone – I don’t know – based on the research available so far”

           That lie is so egregious it’s laughable. It didn’t even work in the small cohort of subjects in their 3 failed RCTs, let alone in “everyone”. The idea that it works at all goes beyond dishonesty and well into the realm of psychotic delusion.

           Steve Jackson said: “it seems that it is more likely that Protandim does lower oxidative stress in the body than it doesn’t.”

           Again, you are doubling down on a laughably false, inane, unscientific assertion that has already been proven wrong 3 times over.

           Steve Jackson said: “More human trials are needed to nail down a better understanding of the effectiveness and get a better understanding of the effective rates.”

           Au contraire. It has failed to lower oxidative stress in 3 consecutive RCTs, so its lack of effectiveness is beyond doubt at this point. Doing any more research in humans would be pointless and unethical.

           Steve Jackson said: “But it has helped me twice with chronic arthritis and joint pain/RA.”

           So you’re doubling down on the illegal claims again. Tsk tsk. Shame on you! How willing are you to stand behind you claims? Enough to provide your distributor ID# so that we can run it past the FDA? Of course not. Sniveling cowardice is as much a part of this as the chronic dishonesty.

     • Kathleen Burns says

       December 14, 2017 at 12:08 pm

       Mr Steve Jackson, you state that runners do not experience increased oxidative stress, however, you should know that ALL exercise increases oxidative stress. This is especially true of vigorous cardiovascular exercise.

       Reply

     • Terry says

       January 10, 2018 at 11:23 am

       My holistic vet has my 83 pound dog on 1/2 tab daily, thought he might have stress or leaky gut. Funny, it seems to be helping him but then again he has only been on it two weeks.

       Reply

4. Vogel says

   November 1, 2017 at 10:47 am

   Steve Jackson said: “Vogel, meanwhile, the 23rd Peer Reviewed study on Protandim was published.”

   First off, don’t capitalize “peer reviewed”; that’s just silly. It’s not a proper noun. Secondly, yes, I know. I have been aware of the study for months and have cited it here several times already. It would help if you read the comments before posting.

   Steve Jackson said: “Now, I understand that neither of you will EVER find anything positive to say about Protandim. But, this research clearly indicates that the benefits shown in the mice study CAN be translated to humans.”

   There is nothing positive to say about Protandim, in part because all the controlled clinical research (including this study you’re trumpeting about) showed negative results. This particular study shows the opposite of what you allege it shows; it proves, yet again, that the results in mice do not translate to humans. Why you would allege otherwise is a bit mystifying; but then again, not really. It’s the same old story – ignorance and/or dishonesty are the only explanations.

   So what did this study actually show? Here are 3 of the most pertinent findings:

   1. Protandim did alter mRNA expression of downstream Nrf2 targets.
   2. “Oxidative stress and oxidative damage…no significant changes in CON or Protandim”
   3. “Plasma levels of IL-8, TNF-α, and CRP were unaltered…Protandim…did not influence these select markers of inflammation”

   So there you have it. Protandim didn’t affect oxidative stress, which yet again discounts the company’s marketing claims but confirms the results of 2 other randomized clinical trials, nor did it have any effect on NRF2 targets (rebutting still another marketing claim) or markers of inflammation. In other words, it’s not an antioxidant nor an anti-inflammatory, nor does it alter NRF2 in any meaningful way.

   Now, for a quick lesson in statistics. As in most research, the cutoff for demonstrating a statistically significant difference between groups in this study was set at a p-value of 0.05. The article states (p179):

   “Statistical significance was set at P < 0.05.”

   So now let’s look at how that significance level cutoff applied in the study. First, with respect to myofibrillar protein synthesis, the difference did not meet the p<0.05 significance level, as indicated by this statement (p180):

   “Protandim tended (P = 0.07) to have a greater ratio of myofibrillar protein synthesis to total DNA synthesis.”

   Obviously, a p-value of 0.07 exceeds the 0.05 threshold and, thus, the difference is NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT, which means that Protandim DID NOT have a significant effect on the ratio of myofibrillar protein synthesis to total DNA synthesis. Non-significance of the effect was again confirmed by comparison with the control group, as indicated by the statement:

   “The ratio of myofibrillar protein to DNA synthesis was greater… in men after Protandim versus CON (P = 0.06)”

   In fact, this is a misstatement because the p-value of 0.06 exceeds the threshold of 0.05 and again is NON SIGNIFICANT. In other words, Protandim did not have a significant effect on the ratio of myofibrillar protein synthesis to total DNA synthesis in men either. It’s also worth pointing out as a side note that the study wasn’t designed nor powered to detect gender-based differences and only a third of the subjects (5 per group) were male, so they shouldn’t have even attempted such an analysis. But financially incentivized hacks, like the ones that LifeVantage buys, will bend over backwards to say something positive, no matter how trivial, about their financier's product.

   So there you have it. Protandim failed epically. It didn’t do any of the things that it is advertised to do; in fact, the study showed that it pretty much did nothing.

   It’s also worth pointing out that ratio of myofibrillar protein synthesis to total DNA synthesis is not a recognized biomarker for any important therapeutic effect or disease mechanism. In other words it’s a clinically meaningless endpoint, aside from the fact that Protandim did not significantly affect it.

   Steve Jackson said: “This was published in the American Aging Association this year and it is another peer-reviewed study.”

   No it wasn’t. It was published in the journal GeroScience, a journal so insignificant that it beggars the imagination as to why they would publish it there (it has an embarrassingly low impact factor of 2.12). Journals like this are a dumping ground for worthless research that no good journal would ever deign to publish.

   Steve Jackson said: “ The study was supported by…LifeVantage…but it does NOT IMPACT the validity in any way.”

   Of course it does. It creates a conflict of interest which most certainly calls the validity into question; or at least it would have had the results not shown the product to be a dismal failure in every regard.

   Two of the researchers (Hamilton and Miller) have received hundreds of thousands of dollars from LifeVantage over the past 5 or so years to trot out useless studies like these. They are propagandists for a snakeoil pyramid scheme. Fortunately, they are third-rate propagandists because the research they put out this time confirms yet again that Protandim is a worthless failure of a product.

   Steve Jackson said: “What other Dietary supplement in the world has 23 articles in pubmed?”

   The answer is Juice Plus, which has already been stated here many time over, but that MLM product is every bit as much a scam as the moronic placebos you’re selling so that's not a flattering similarity. But what does the number of studies matter when the fact is that all of the randomized clinical trials showed Protandim to be a failure. LifeVantage should have stopped buying and publishing studies long ago, but since this joke of a product is the only arrow in their quiver, they keep beating the horse long after it died.

   Steve Jackson said: “Why would non-lifevantage studies even be carried out?”

   That’s pretty obvious isn’t it? So that the sad-sack grifters who sell the product can scream words like “23 articles in Pub Med” and “PEER REVIEWED!!!” in their efforts to deceive people into joining the pyramid scheme, when in fact their tainted research proves that it’s utterly worthless.

   Reply

   • Momma T says

     November 7, 2017 at 1:43 pm

     Just who the heck are you “Vogel” and what makes you an expert in the field of nutrition, health etc? What credentials do you have that would back up all of your statements regarding this product or any other products etc? I am curious as to why we should all listen to you and take your word as the holy grail of truth? I am not meaning to be contradictory but truly curious as to who you are. From what I have read so far, you sound like a disgruntled angry person. I do not use this product nor have I ever tried it.

     Reply

     • Vogel says

       November 7, 2017 at 5:34 pm

       Momma T said: “Just who the heck are you “Vogel”…”

       Wow! That’s a pretty aggressive way to ask a question. I am “Vogel”! Not at all nice to meet you “Momma”.

       BTW, as a general observation for the group, have you ever noticed how all the anonymous MLM shills use “mom” or “truth” in their user names? Interesting tactic considering that the posts read like fake news click-bait created by trolls in an FSB cyber-hacking boiler room.

       Momma T said: “…and what makes you an expert in the field of nutrition, health etc? What credentials do you have that would back up all of your statements regarding this product or any other products etc? I am curious as to why we should all listen to you and take your word as the holy grail of truth?”

       That question is intellectually dishonest to the extreme (painfully actually). I construct my arguments based on evidence that’s publicly available and which I provide links to so that anyone can verify the details independently. You can follow a link right? Perhaps not. Other people don’t seem to have a problem doing so.

       And who is the “we” you speak of? In fact, you speak for yourself only. Don’t try to make it seem that anyone else is as clueless as you are.

       Momma T said: “I am not meaning to be contradictory but truly curious as to who you are.”

       You didn’t contradict anything so there’s no cause for concern about seeming “contradictory”. You do however come across as antisocial and bitter about something (I have no clue why and couldn’t care less). Would you go to the editorial page of an e-newspaper and ask the commenters there to reveal their identities so that you can satisfy your curiosity?

       Momma T said: “From what I have read so far, you sound like a disgruntled angry person.”

       Really? I am 100% gruntled, I assure you. My comments are constructed in such a way as to provide verifiable factual information relevant to the product/company. Anger has nothing to do with it. However, when faced with the realization that this organization is lying and selling a fake medicine pyramid scheme to sick and desperate people, one would have every right to be angry.

       Momma T said: “I do not use this product nor have I ever tried it.

       That’s the only sensible thing you’ve said so far.

       Reply

   • Steve Jackson says

     November 11, 2017 at 8:17 pm

     Vogel,

     So, you and your clinical bio-engineering background are going to totally contradict what the study conclusion says? Which, let me remind you was:

     “After Protandim, the ratio of protein to DNA synthesis tended to be greater in the myofibrillar fraction and maintained in the mitochondrial and cytoplasmic fractions, emphasizing the importance of measuring both protein and DNA synthesis to gain insight into proteostasis. Overall, these data suggest that Protandim may enhance proteostatic mechanisms of skeletal muscle contractile proteins after 6 weeks of milk protein feeding in older adults.”

     So, why do you conclude one thing and the researchers another? What background do you have in bio-engineering to suggest anyone should take your conclusions when the authors of the study clearly state another viewpoint. I am going to rely on the professionals here. Your input in this forum has already exposed that you are willing to outright lie and mislead to defame anyone and any institution that has published positve findings about Protandim.

     Lest we not forget you said that Ohio State and it’s medical research departments were a “Middling University” and when you had to back track on that statement you doubled down by painting a negative picture on Ohio State’s Bio Engineering department who actually performed the study – only to find out that they are one of the highest ranked Bio-Engineering departments in the United States.

     You said the runner’s study showed no improvement in SOD production, when in fact, the study clearly says that the SOD levels in runner’s over the age of 35 were twice that of the placebo group.

     And when I point out your inaccurate statements, you simply don’t respond. But now, Vogel, or should I say, Brian C. MacFarland, you are now violating the settlement agreement that you had between you and LifeVantage. I will be sharing this series of posts with the legal team at LifeVantage.

     Personally, I hope that they now come after you FULL FORCE as you are now liable for their legal fees incurred since you LOST in both District Court as well as the California Superior Court. One would think, that you would leave well enough alone, but NO, you have to take your lies and deception to the Supplement Geek website when you were no longer allowed to post your lies onto your Lazyman site.

     Your history of going after MLM companies is well documented and when LifeVantage called you on your malicions and defamatory statements by taking you to court; the courts ruled that LifeVanage had a serious case against you and they let you off the hook. But clearly, you couldn’t help but violate the terms of the settlement agreement by trying to post anonymously on this blog!

     I will be reporting you for violating the terms and conditions of your settlement agreement. LifeVantage is a good company! It has an A+ Better Business Bureau rating! It is NOT a pyramid scheme! Robert Kiyosaki and Warren Buffet have BOTH recommended network marketing as a mean to grow wealth as long as it is with a quality company with a quality product; LifeVantage is BOTH!

     Now, I understand your hate and vitriol for LifeVantage. You are NOT a non-biased opinion, you are a hater that crossed the line enough for 2 courts; one of them being the California Supreme Court to uphold LifeVantage’s position that their claims of defamation merited their day in court.

     Well, I will be notifying LifeVantage’s compliance team that you are up to your old tricks again and let’s see how they respond to your potentially violating the terms of the settlement agreement. Which, by the way, LifeVantage threw you a bone by not taking the court to trial, which was their right. I hope that this new activity inspires them to re-engage you in defending LifeVantage’s good name and the PROVEN quality of it’s flagship product; Protandim NRF2.

     Now I understand why you REFUSE to identify yourself! Because if someone figured it out, which honestly, it wasn’t that hard, you could be up a legal creek without a paddle.

     For anyone reading these posts, LifeVantage is a quality company that truly has revolutionary products that are changing the dietary supplement game. Vogel, aka Brian C. MacFarland, has a history of writing defamatory and deceitful statements about many companies. LifeVantage, however, chose not to put up with his lies and sued him. When it was clear that LifeVantage had a super strong case, a settlement was reached. See: (LifeVantage Corporation v. MacFarland, No. A141057 in the Court of Appeal, CIV 521137 in the Superior Court).

     No wonder you kept up all the lies about Ohio State, Virgina, the Protandim Runner’s study, and so much more!

     Well, I hope that the LifeVantage legal team reads what has been posted here and sees that you have violated the terms of the settlement agreement.

     Good luck with that when they come after you again. You just couldn’t help yourself I guess.

     Folks, LifeVantage is a great company and they have high-quality effective products! Vogel, aka Corey Brewer, aka Brian C. MacFarland is simply a deceitful mind that wanted to increase traffic to his blog by attacking up and coming MLM companies. He is a skilled web engineer that has ZERO formal training in Bio-engineering and does not have any medical experience whatsoever!

     Now, hopefully, the blog can return to a cordial and TRUTHFUL blog about the benefits of Protandim.

     Reply

     • Vogel says

       November 12, 2017 at 10:37 pm

       Steve Jackson said: “Vogel, So, you and your clinical bio-engineering background…”

       I never said a word about having a “clinical bio-engineering” background. Why do you insist on inventing these ridiculous strawman arguments?

       Steve Jackson said: “Are going to totally contradict what the study conclusion says? Which, let me remind you was…”

       I quoted the relevant portions of the publication which show that Protandim failed and I explained the issues with respect to statistics. Perhaps you didn’t read it, perhaps you don’t understand it; perhaps you are simply denying what you know is obviously true. Either way, doesn’t really matter to me. I’ll just refer you back to what I wrote previously so that I don’t have to waste energy and whitespace explaining it all again.

       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150369
       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150349
       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150211
       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150194
       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150171

       Steve Jackson said: “And when I point out your inaccurate statements, you simply don’t respond.”

       That’s completely untrue. I have painstakingly responded in great detail to every comment you have made.

       Steve Jackson said: “But now, Vogel, or should I say, Brian C. MacFarland…”

       No, you should say Vogel. When you call me any other name, you’re resorting to blatant deception — the M.O. of a dishonest scammer.

       Steve Jackson said: “I will be reporting you for violating the terms and conditions of your settlement agreement.”

       Good luck with that. I have no settlement agreement and you’re grasping at straws.

       Reply

5. Vogel says

   October 30, 2017 at 8:06 pm

   Ugh, it makes me sick Lisa, considering that the company paid off Myhill, that his recantation went so far as to include a plug for the company’s stock:

   “And, yes, I’m very confident the stock will quickly bounce back. Consider it a great buying opportunity next week – your chance to load up while it’s a little cheaper than it was before. Smart money is buying it right now, especially considering the additional exposure and confidence it will achieve at convention.”
   https://strangelyperfect.tv/12482/paul-myhill-publishes-joe-mccord-letter-on-facebook/

   Not only is that nauseatingly hypocritical, in light of his criticism of the company shortly prior, and self serving, it’s probably also an SEC violation. A compensated insider giving a stock plug to a private group of distributors? Definite no no.

   Reply

   • Steve Jackson says

     November 1, 2017 at 12:01 am

     Vogel,

     Meanwhile, the 23rd Peer Reviewed study on Protandim was published.

     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5411371/pdf/11357_2017_Article_9968.pdf

     Those findings state:

     “After Protandim, the ratio of protein to DNA synthesis tended to be greater in the myofibrillar fraction and maintained in the mitochondrial and cytoplasmic fractions, emphasizing the importance of measuring both protein and DNA synthesis to gain insight into proteostasis. Overall, these data suggest that Protandim may enhance proteostatic mechanisms of skeletal muscle contractile proteins after 6 weeks of milk protein feeding in older adults.

     This study provides support for further examination
     into the mechanisms of how interventions that extend
     mammalian life span in experimental animals can be
     translated to humans. These studies will help facilitate
     the development of precision strategies to maintain
     proteostasis, slow sarcopenia, and extend human health
     span.

     Consistent with our previous findings that demonstrate
     that an increased ratio of protein to DNA synthesis,
     a contributor of proteostasis, is a shared characteristic
     of slowed aging (Miller et al. 2014), we have
     now shown that Protandim slows aging in male mice
     (Strong et al. 2016) and may also improve mechanisms
     of skeletal muscle proteostasis after 6 weeks of milk
     protein feeding in older humans.”

     Now, I understand that neither of you will EVER find anything positive to say about Protandim. But, this research clearly indicates that the benefits shown in the mice study CAN be translated to humans.

     This was published in the American Aging Association this year and it is another peer-reviewed study. As you know, a peer-reviewed study takes a minimum of 3 experts in the subject matter and has EACH of them review the data WITHOUT knowing the names of the other two experts in the field.

     Thier data is then compared – notes are shared – still anonymously – any questions answered as submitted prior to final publication.

     This study was approved by the Institutional Review Board at Colorado State University (13-4191H). The study was supported by the Dairy Research Institue and yes, LifeVantage (unlike you guys – I don’t leave facts like this out). The extent of the support is not indicated, but it does NOT IMPACT the validity in any way when it is published as part of a peer-reviewed study.

     What other Dietary supplement in the world has 23 articles in pubmed? Why would non-lifevantage studies even be carried out?

     Cannon, please add this study to your review.

     Reply

     • Joe says

       November 1, 2017 at 8:56 am

       Steve, thanks for forwarding the study. I’m going to read it and add it to the review.

       Reply

6. LisaRob says

   October 30, 2017 at 7:22 pm

   Steve, I have a very long history of comments on this webpage, and have stated my history with the product. I have followed the company for years, started out as a customer, read what other critics have written, and done some research of my own. I exposed some lies regarding a falsified quote from a researcher, and a false claim about diabetes research being done at UMN. I have read false, illegal and misleading advertising from distributers, and consulted with experts regarding those claims.

   I am not the one who needs things cleared up for me regarding Myhill, Protandim, or the history of Lifevantage.

   Now, to address what you posted, the following is a quote from Myhill where he very clearly states that he does not take Protandim anymore. He posted this on his Facebook page, but deleted it. I have a screenshot, though:

   “As far as my new formula is concerned, let’s just say that there are now many known NRF2 activators, compared to ten years ago, and others that are assumed to be based upon their impact on the primary catalytic antioxidant enzymes and other markers. This is no big secret and is plainly discernible through a simple Google search.

   My new formula isn’t an advance on my old invention. Rather, it’s an entirely new composition, with a reduced set of common ingredients and the addition of others, that I believe (no pre-clinical or clinical testing to support it yet) has all the data points to show NRF2 activation, up-regulation of the antioxidant enzymes, AND provide other beneficial outcomes as bonuses.

   I also don’t take the latest composition in a pill form. These days, I’m more interested in functional foods/ingredients, believing that we are popping too many pills in general because we aren’t getting the required nutrition from good dietary intake. I’m not saying that all specialty supplements aren’t needed, far from it. I still stand 100% behind Protandim, but a lot has changed and is better understood during the last ten years – from an activator (up-regulator) standpoint, and from a dietary standpoint.”

   As for the “For The Record” quote you posted, please read Myhill’s “Open Letter,” below. He posted this after writing “For The Record,” as you can tell when he states: “I initially stated that “nobody lied,” desiring to give this current management team the benefit of the doubt and chalking it to human error and the discontinuity of company management in general.”

   Here are the pertinent parts of the letter. The rest of it is Myhill talking about his financial dispute with the company:

   “…..It is with great sadness that I write this on the eve of my Birthday – not exactly the “gift” I was hoping for . . . or hoping to give. Since 2008, I have been pleading with the company to correct its marketing materials – to reflect that Joe is not the “Inventor” or “Creator” or “Scientist behind” Protandim; that Protandim wasn’t “developed after 40 years of research;” and that it didn’t consist of a “laundry list” of 40 ingredients that Joe whittled down to the current formula. This is all simply untrue. I’m sure the company will try to put some sort of further spin on this now and try to convince people otherwise, but the truth is the truth and will always come out in the end. Darkness can’t hide from the light.”

   “The CORE botanical formula I forwarded to Joe included the current five botanicals, plus one additional one – all in the EXACT same proportions/weights as the current formula (all 1/3 of the original to get it into one pill), but with Milk Thistle subsequently bumped up at my suggestion. The other ingredients were part of an “all-in-one” (multi-formula) addition to that CORE botanical formula that I developed. Given such indisputable facts (and that the initial patent was filed one month before we even met Joe), how am I NOT the creator? How is Joe THE creator? The simple email record, and even a letter from Joe himself, clearly show that the current company communications are downright false and misleading . . . and, in the eyes of many, perpetuate an ongoing fraud – one that the SEC and FTC should be made aware of.”

   “I initially stated that “nobody lied,” desiring to give this current management team the benefit of the doubt and chalking it to human error and the discontinuity of company management in general. But then, month after month went by with the same erroneous materials still being widely distributed by the company, despite their own admission to me that Joe isn’t the creator. These same materials are on the company website TODAY. I just don’t get how a company can keep doing that, with full knowledge that the materials are sending the wrong message to current and new distributors. Many times I wrote emails (which I’d be happy to share with you) and each time nothing was done to take down the offending materials.”

   “I’ll be glad to once again share that whole “Protandim Development History” with you, which is backed up by meticulous documentation, the full email record, plus personal notes and commentaries. It spanned over 20 blog entries. I’m an “open book.” I had nothing to hide. I shared it all.”

   “I’m sure, though, that if I were to re-post Protandim’s development history, the company would claim that I was then “giving away company secrets” and would once again try to silence the true history of the product’s creation – MY creation of Protandim – that occurred for almost ten months before I even met Joe. The reality is that the company misrepresentations have gone on for so long now that they have no choice but to try to silence the truth. Just you wait and see. I can almost hear the “cease and desist” letter being typed up right now. And I can almost picture the new “watered-down” version of the history that the company will now come up with.”

   “Doug mentioned in his letter that I found the company response unacceptable. Well, one of those unacceptable conditions was that I sign a new set of releases (to silence me telling the true Protandim story again) and that I pull down my “LifeVantage / Protandim Founder’s Page” on Facebook which, of course, would be in addition to my blog that was already pulled down. Do you see the common theme here? Silence. Silence. And more Silence. I’m a high-justice person who stands for truth and integrity and, despite the company trying to buy that silence by offering for Traffic Jam to be featured at convention, I told them that I couldn’t in good conscience do that. I’m not signing away my voice. My “Founder’s Page” stays. My voice stays. And my appeal to get the company to meet its commitments . . . stays.”

   “Do you want a company of integrity? Well, then, don’t let them silence the truth any more. Protandim wasn’t an “idea” that Bill and I took to Joe. It was a full formula that even Joe stated in a letter was almost at its “final embodiment.” And the company’s charitable pledges to Traffic Jam wasn’t an “idea” that I just came up with. It was represented in multiple press releases and SEC filings and collateral materials. If you don’t believe me, go to EDGAR and check yourself for at least the SEC part of it.”

   “Ever wonder why the company took down all the archived press releases? Because it backs up what I’m saying and what I’ve been asking, not for myself, but on behalf of trafficked and enslaved children.”

   “Given the erroneous wording in Doug’s email, I can only assume now that the company has chosen the issue of the 100,000 shares to try to discredit me – making it sound like I’ve been making selfish and unreasonable demands of the company – while at the same time trying to discredit the true history of Protandim’s development. Doug, of course, fails to mention in his email that the “great deal of material” that I posted on the Internet concerning “my view” of that development was 1.) Taken down by me as a sign of “good faith” and 2.) Was only posted in the first place after I reached out to the company multiple times beforehand – with no response.”

   “I’m not sure how Doug can call it “my view” of Protandim’s development anyway, considering that it included hundreds of emails (that were copied or sent to dozens upon dozens of people) as well as a number of other source documents that were widely circulated. It’s not just “my view,” as demonstrated by the substantiated, well-documented evidence. Of course, if the company has its way, you probably won’t see any of that document and you’ll just have to accept Doug’s words that it was simply “my view” of events. Where was Doug during the development of Protandim? Who is he to challenge the clear evidence? Can he not see the patent was initially filed a full month before Joe even came into the picture? Does he not see whose name is on the patent?”

   “For months, I’ve taken steps of “good faith” and have expected the company to do the same – to act in “good faith” to take down the erroneous marketing materials that were propagating that Joe was the inventor/creator of Protandim. Sadly, the company never reciprocated. The 100,000 share issue, unfortunately, has now become the easy point of contention that allows LifeVantage to not have to give credit to me for my invention. By making it so public and contentious, LifeVantage now has a convenient excuse to not have to include Bill and me in our rightful place in the company history. Something that should have been celebrated can now be easily swept under the rug because I’m the “bad guy” with “unreasonable” expectations who asked the company to honor its commitments. It now allows them to feel better about themselves somehow – for so long being negligent in getting the real story about Protandim’s development out there; for so long casting me in a “false light” by commission and omission; for so long keeping up the erroneous materials to the point of malice and great hurt.”

   “Company of integrity, Doug says? How about keeping its original promises to match the founders’ shares to rescue children? How about keeping its original promises to give 10% of pre-tax net profits away for children and related humanitarian causes? How about filing an 8-K correction notice with the SEC every time the erroneous message of Joe being the “creator” went out? How about the promise to correct the development history while at the same time keeping up the offending materials that lead people to believe Joe was the inventor? How about David’s promise to “make it happen” for me to have a “Goodwill Ambassador” role with the company, to help further the purposes of Traffic Jam? How about the company’s constant encouragement for distributors to use the copyrighted material of ABC News for commercial purposes? How about all those big distributors who came over with down-lines allegedly “stolen” from Zrii? How about ALL the mentions of diseases when it’s clearly not permitted in the marketing of a supplement?”

   “Integrity? Company of integrity? Actions speak louder than words.”

   End quote. If you want to read the whole letter, you can find it here: https://strangelyperfect.tv/12482/paul-myhill-publishes-joe-mccord-letter-on-facebook/

   In conclusion, Myhill doesn’t take the product anymore, and the company has no integrity.

   Reply

7. LisaRob says

   October 17, 2017 at 1:07 pm

   Steve, you might be interested in knowing that Paul Myhill (the “inventor” of Protandim), no longer takes the product and has moved on to other things. He posted about this on his Facebook page back in August of 2015. If the product is so amazing, why would he stop taking it?

   Mic drop?

   Reply

   • Steve Jackson says

     October 30, 2017 at 10:23 am

     Lisa,

     You should also note, that Paul Myhill posted the following before the Facebook page was taken down:

     *** FOR THE RECORD *** by Paul Myhill

     “I love Protandim and LifeVantage. They are indeed “my babies” and a great part of my legacy. They have changed my life and the lives of thousands around the world. I think the current management team and distribution model are excellent. All the distributors I have met or talked to are simply amazing. As David Brown mentioned at Elite in San Antonio, this is the embodiment of my original vision for the company and product.

     “I also need to say that there are not “two sides to the story” as far as the development of Protandim is concerned. There is only one story – and it honors my involvement and Joe’s involvement, plus the involvement of the One who was ultimately responsible.

     “Nobody lied. Nobody covered anything up. Sure, there have been some misspoken words, media/reporter errors, and some confusion over terminology: inventor versus formulator; creator versus developer, etc., but this has been because we are simply human and not perfect, because we were treading into uncharted territory with the development of this game-changing product, and because we went through quite a few management team changes until we were blessed with this one. I take my fair share of the blame for the confusion caused along the way, and for not remaining engaged with LifeVantage during those dry years.

     “Please don’t let the naysayers and critics dissuade you. This is an excellent company with an excellent product and excellent folks involved at all levels. I’m very proud of my involvement in the past, present and future.

     . . . And that future looks incredibly bright!”

     LisaRob, from what I have researched, there is no indication that he has stopped taking the product and I have not seen anything online to indicate as such. And clearly, you can see from his own words, that he has nothing but respect for the product and wanted Protandim to be distributed in a direct sales model, to begin with. He left the company in the GNC years where they lost millions due to lack of sales.

     Again, LisaRob, if you are going to present information, and don’t present the entire statement. That can be very misleading to the people that come to this site.

     And yes, Mic Drop might be a bit over the top – agreed. Not really intended for you. But it does seem like there are those that will paint a picture without all the facts.

     The fact that Myhill left the company during the lean years and might have forfeited any monetary rights seems to be a regret of Mr. Myhill.

     But, at least he is honest in saying that the product is effective and Myhill personally recommends that people take Protandim to this day.

     I hope that clarifies things with respects to Paul Myhill. I am not sure if you had a bad experience with Protandim or just don’t like network marketing in general. Regardless, Protandim has been very beneficial to me and Axio, another LifeVantage product which helps with mental clarity has been a fantastic addition to the supplements I take.

     Hope that clears things up for you.

     Reply

     • Vogel says

       October 30, 2017 at 7:59 pm

       Steve Jackson said: “Lisa, You should also note, that Paul Myhill posted the following before the Facebook page was taken down…”

       Rather than going through the tedious task of dismantling your misleading error-ridden screed point-by-point, it would be more fruitful to step back and recap the key details so that the big picture doesn’t get muddled. The key facts are as follows.

       Two completely unqualified individuals (Bill Driscoll and Paul Myhill) with no relevant experience hastily whipped up Protandim as a marketing concept after a deal fell through with Ceremedix to develop the peptide-based product that was originally slated to be marketed as Protandim. The name of Driscoll’s and Myhill’s company at the time was Lifeline Therapeutics (renamed as LifeVantage in 2009).
       https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-112356866.html
       http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/23785/title/Your-Money-for-Your-Life/#ixzz1DA5Ng18E
       https://business.highbeam.com/3563/article-1G1-111038316/denver-businessmen-gamble-selling-fountain-youth-pill

       The new last-minute herbal substitute version of Protandim was launched in June 2005. Driscoll resigned a month later and Myhill officially resigned in November of that year (although he continued to be a product distributor for years afterward).
       https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2005/07/04/daily12.html
       https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000102189005000208/lifeline1111058kex991.htm

       To coincide with the launch of the hastily reformulated Protandim, the company hired a big-shot NYC advertising agency (Ogilvy) to secure product placement deals (like the crassly promotional spot on ABC Primetime), and Joe McCord was given a pot of dough to be the official face of Protandim. McCord, because of his credentials and credibility, was deceptively credited by the company as the “creator”, while the fact that it was really Driscoll and Myhill who were the products developers and patent holders was suppressed.
       https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ogilvy+Public+Relations+Worldwide%2fDenver+Wins+Nutraceuticals+Account%3b…-a0129903199
       http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=4274928-1392-7828&type=sect&TabIndex=2&companyid=2950&ppu=%252fdefault.aspx%253fcompanyid%253d2950
       https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=7241461&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP

       The suppression continued until 2012 until news about the true story behind Protandim’s development reached a crescendo as a result of investigative research on various websites/blogs. Myhill apparently seized on this as an opportunity for leverage against the company and he started spilling the beans loudly. He posted a butt-hurt “open letter” screed on his Facebook page (www.facebook.com/protandim.inventor) describing in vivid detail how LifeVantage had been deceiving the public about the product’s creation and how they had failed to honor previous commitments to donate to Myhill’s “charity”; and he posted a signed letter from McCord on official U Colorado letterhead in which McCord confessed that he did not deserve any credit as the product’s creator/inventor.
       https://dnafountainofyouth.wordpress.com/2012/09/30/the-protandim-controversy-the-myhill-mayhem/

       Myhill’s accusations at the time echoed what he had admitted about the product’s creation back in 2009…

       “The core composition came from a very unlikely source – me – we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord.”
       https://web.archive.org/web/20130307111310/http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lifevantage/blog/2009/03/09/inside-protandim-the-paul-myhill-interview

       …and in his statement to the SEC in 2005 in which he identified himself, not McCord, as the “initial researcher and developer” and “primary inventor” of Protandim.
       https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000102189005000208/lifeline1111058kex991.htm

       Then the most remarkable chain of events took place. Myhill scrubbed his Facebook page (and even admitted he had scrubbed it) and proceeded to figuratively fellate LifeVantage with effusive praise in a new post. And what was his reward? A donation to his “charity” Traffic Jam.
       https://www.facebook.com/paul.r.myhill/posts/402849706400653
       http://investor.lifevantage.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=666123

       It just so happens that Myhill has been drawing fat salaries from the two “charitable organizations” (Traffic Jam/Orphan Lifeline and world Orphans), which he ran out of his home in Castle Rock, CO. He paid himself over a quarter million dollars from the two operations from 2007-2010.
       http://www2.guidestar.org/organizations/33-0571309/world-orphans.aspx
       https://www2.guidestar.org/profile/20-1437471

       In short, Myhill had been unqualified to develop a nutritional product, given that his only experience prior to Protandim was as a low-level product marketer. In addition, SEC filings in 2005 indicate that Myhill had declared personal bankruptcy in Texas a few years prior after having failed in a business venture where he had co-mingled personal and business funds/expenses (an obvious legal violation). Obviously, Myhill’s less than impressive background would have disqualified him as a credible front man for Protandim (it should have also disqualified him from a role as a corporate VP), which necessitated hiring McCord to pretend that it was he who had created the product.
       https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000106594904000099/final14flti.txt

       Myhill basically used the truth (i.e., that Bill Driscoll and he, not McCord, invented Protandim) to squeeze the company several years later, and then when he got what he wanted (10 seconds of fame and a bit of cash), he tried to whitewash the whole incident as though nothing had ever happened.

       Steve Jackson said: “LisaRob, from what I have researched, there is no indication that he has stopped taking the product and I have not seen anything online to indicate as such. And clearly, you can see from his own words, that he has nothing but respect for the product…”

       Have a look at my reply above and you’ll see what real research looks like. It’s laden with facts and evidence, logical premises, and verifiable conclusions. I can’t even be generous enough to call what you write threadbare third-rate propaganda because it’s several notches below that.

       Obviously, the real issue here isn’t whether or not Myhill still takes the product (although he indicated that he doesn’t and now sells something else) or that he said some nice things about the company (only after they paid him to recant his scathing criticism and well-supported accusations of malfeasance).

       Anyone who has spent a bit of time researching the company has instantly recognized the big picture – a malfeasant multi-level marketing scheme that sells a worthless fraudulently-marketed snakeoil product. Only someone with blinders on (through staggering ignorance or financial self-interest) would try to argue otherwise.

       It has been rotten since day 1. The company and its product were epic failures, so they hired David Brown in 2008 to turn it into an MLM and exploit his nefarious experience with Metabolife – one of the most corrupt and worst-offending supplement companies in history. Even worse, the company that they hired to manufacture Protandim was Chemins, which had manufactured Metabolife until it became known that it was killing people and the CEO got jailed, essentially for trafficking methamphetamine precursors and lying about it to the FDA.
       https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000129993308000280/htm_25009.htm
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemins

       That is what a mic drop looks like mofo.

       Reply

8. LisaRob says

   October 15, 2017 at 6:59 pm

   Steve Jackson said, “It’s clear that your Protandim “Critical Review” and subsequent forum posts are not intended to really conduct a solid review.”

   Steve, I think you are confusing Vogel with Joe Cannon. Vogel did not write the review, but he does make spot-on comments!

   Reply

   • Steve Jackson says

     October 16, 2017 at 2:37 pm

     Vogel,

     You only post the portion of things that allow you to twist an argument. You are very clever at doing that:

     Based on what you posted, one would be left to believe that I would be in violation of my LiveVantage company, policy. and people would beleive that NO Product testimonials would be allowed. But read the rest of the policy – the very next paragraph that you so deceitfully omitted:

     “An Independent Distributor that provides product experience testimonials in any medium should use care to disclose their affiliation with LifeVantage, i.e., LifeVantage® Independent Distributor, be honest in their testimonial personal experience and assert that they are not claiming that their experience is the typical result experienced by consumers.”

     The company policy does allow for personal testimonials, as long as they don’t say something like this: “Protandim cured my cancer.”

     Not only did I claim that my experience might not be the same for others, I made no implicit statements that Protandim cured me of anything. I do firmly believe that reducing your oxidative stress is beneficial to your overall health. A point that I made and you refuse to opine on. I feel MUCH better on Protandim than I do off Protandim.

     READ the full policy. testimonials are allowed as long as they are truthful. I have not made any false claims. I didn’t say Protandim cured my Arthritis. And I specifically communicated that the results I experienced might not be the same for someone else. that is well within the policy. All within LifeVantage policies.

     I know a couple people that have taken Protandim and not reported any major improvement in a particular ailment that they were experiencing. So, I am careful to always state that as I did in my post.

     You can provide me your email address and I will gladly send you my LifeVantage Distributor ID. Not allowed to post it in this forum. I am not trying to market myself in this forum. I am just providing an opposing viewpoint to the slanted version of the truth you are peddling.

     The Cannon review did publish the following from the human runners study:

     “In addition, Protandim did not reduce TBARS or alter levels of antioxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase (SOD) or glutathione peroxidase (GPX) during resting periods. The researchers report however that in those over age 35, Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo.”

     What part of Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo do you NOT understand? As we age, SOD levels decrease, which is why the study states that for those over 35, the SOD levels were twice those of the placebo group. That is NOT BS, that is factual. Mr. Cannon even published that as part of his report.

     Your comment about Ohio State, LSU and Virigina being “middling universities” was a blanket statement intended to discredit their work. And when you are faced with the fact that Ohio State and Virigina are well ranked Medical research Universities, you want to avoid the fact that you were WRONG about the quality of those Universities, you want to now say well, yes, they might be good, but they didn’t do the research, another part of the university did. When your “middling” comment about Ohio State and Virginia was totally proven wrong, you want to now attack their #11 ranked Bio Engineering Department? It’s funny how you shift your attack when you point is proven wrong and end up walking from the frying pan to the fire to fully illustrate you don’t know what you are talking about with regards to Ohio State. And if you are willing to lie on this point, what other points are you lying about or misleading people on if the statements you have made about Ohio State and Virigina are not based in facts.

     I see that you totally avoided Dr. Pall’s work at Washington State. Not one word to contradict those findings? Interesting. You are not going to challenge that report?

     You also never stated why the review never interviewed anyone who actually uses the product or why the reviewer wouldn’t do their own T-Bars test like John Quinones did in the ABC Investigative report in which ABC reported that his T-Bar levels were reduced in just two weeks of using Protandim. Is ABC a flawed organization? Is John Quinones being dishonest in this reporting?

     Calling me a victim when I am standing up for what I believe just shows how desperate you are to attack rather than discuss in a civil manner. As a former US Navy service member, I fought for our country and that experience taught me to stand up for what I believe in.

     So, to recap.

     1. You refuse to admit that the Runner’s Study concluded that SOD was twice that of the Placebo group. Remember, this is an anti-aging product. Although younger people I am aware of have reported benefits of taking the product, Protandim is classified as an anti-aging supplement. You don’t even comment as to know what the importance of what SOD levels mean and why this is VERY IMPORTANT. You misleadingly state that that I am lying when page 23 in the conclusion section of the report under line #3 of the very link that you post states “Regular supplementation of Protandim1 (675 mg/day for 88 days) increased the antioxidant enzyme SOD by two-fold in subgroup of older subjects (35 years), compared to only a 50% increase in the placebo group. Clearly, older people, are typically going to benefit from this product more than those who are younger have higher levels of SOD in their body. But I am sure you will skirt this point AGAIN despite my taking information that YOU provided and was already relayed in the critical review in the first place.
     2. You fail to comment on the validity of Dr. Pall’s / Washington State study. A study which states:

     “While no doubt it is too early to make a conclusion, it is difficult to escape the suggestion, from Tables 1 and 4, that we may be on the verge of a new literature on health effects of Nrf2 which may well become the most extraordinary therapeutic and most extraordinary preventive breakthrough in the history of medicine. It is our opinion that raising Nrf2 is likely to be the most important health promoting approach into the foreseeable future.”

     3. You published only part of LifeVantage policy on testimonial in an attempt to discredit me. Now that the full policy is known to anyone reading this, they can make their own determination.

     4. When you were proven WRONG about the Quality of Ohio State and Virginia and you didn’t admit that these are not “middling” universities. So, when you realized you were wrong and tried to disparage Ohio State’s Bio-Engineering Department, you had NO CLUE that US News and World Report ranked Ohio State’s Bio Engineering department #11 in the nation out of 240 Universities that even qualified/accredited to be reviewed; there are hundreds more that didn’t even make the cut to be ranked. Can’t wait to hear your response to your being so blatantly wrong about those comments you made.

     So, now that your deceitful statements have been exposed, I am not sure how anyone can believe a word you type. You are so caught up in trying to shoot down the science behind this product and discredit anyone who says something positive about Lifevantage and/or Protandim that it seems that you will say anything and cleverly withhold information to try and bolster your points. What is your motivation? Do you represent and/or sell or are in any way affiliated with a competing product? Is this your way of trying to discredit the competition, specifically a company that is growing?

     I have had 2 very positive experiences taking Protandim and using their True Science product as well. I am a distributor, but I am not one unwilling to say something bad about a company I represent. The are LifeVantage products that I have tried and not liked and will be using another company’s product to serve my needs for that product.

     The company itself has had it’s ups and downs. All companies do. But overall the company is trying to do the right thing. So, your claims of scam are completely unfounded. And as far as Protandim is concerned, as long as it is available and my wife and I will be consumers of this product.

     Again, i doubt you will admit to any of the fact that you were wrong in comments about Ohio State, wrong about the fact that SOD levels were reduced by 50% in those members in the study above age 35 or that you didn’t publish the full LiveVantage policy which says that testimonials are allowed as long as they are truthful and don’t claim to cure any disease.

     I am sure you next reply will once again be as toxic and non-truthful as the ones I have clearly proven you wrong on. You are clever with your words, yes, but in the end, if your words are proven wrong, then people in the end will come to their own conclusion as to the voracity of your statements.

     So, now that your ‘conclusive’ statements have been shown to be incorrect. There is no embarrassment here. None whatsoever. Of course, I am confident that you will completely ignore being wrong on multiple fronts and, like a clever politician, avoid the fact that you have been caught making making multiple deceptive statements.

     Add that to the fact that you have already admitted that you are not a scientist. Why should anyone believe a word you say when you are so blatantly being deceptive with your words?

     Further, you have not even answered whether you tried the product? If you are so confident that you are right. Why not get a T-Bars test and then go on Protandim for 90 days yourself and take another test? Oh wait, you won’t do that because… (insert your lame excuse here). Scared of what your test results might reflect?

     Dropping the mic.

     Reply

     • Joe says

       October 16, 2017 at 4:55 pm

       Steve, Ill have to go to back and see how many the twice as high SOD levels in those over 35 was significant or not. Im not sure either way.

       For what its worth, I think the ABC Primetime segment was flawed. I think I said so too in the review.

       Reply

       • Steve Jackson says

         October 16, 2017 at 10:43 pm

         Joe,

         I would like to see the ABC Live investigation updated as well. The reason for SOD levels being twice as high in the members over the age of 35 is because as we age, our T-bars and SOD levels decrease as the natural part of aging; the older you are, generally the lower the level of SOD. If you can improve your SOD levels, you are then able to eliminate more free radicals and have better cellular health is my understanding.

         I am curious to know what flaws you see in the report. I know wish they would have done a complete blood panel.

         Reply

         • Joe says

           October 17, 2017 at 9:42 am

           Steve, thats an assumption about Tbars and SOD. Ive not seen any research on this – and to be honest I have not looked for any yet either. Its an interesting thought. I will add it to my list of things to look at.

           the ABC report was flawed because they didn’t have Tbars tested by an independent lab. Also, this was a sample size of just 1 person.

     • Vogel says

       October 17, 2017 at 12:23 am

       Steve Jackson said: “Based on what you posted, one would be left to believe that I would be in violation of my LiveVantage company, policy. and people would beleive that NO Product testimonials would be allowed.”

       What I posted was simply a direct quote from section 8.2.3 of your distributor policies and procedures, which proves that your testimonial here was in violation. Notably, it doesn’t say that no testimonials are allowed, nor did I even remotely imply such a thing, so someone would have to be pretty dumb to think that was the case. It simply says that testimonials can only be used only if they are from official company marketing materials, and they may not include claims about the product being useful for the “cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation, or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of diseases”, as these violate both LifeVantage policy and federal/state laws:

       “No claims, which include personal testimonials, as to therapeutic, curative or beneficial properties of any products offered by LifeVantage may be made except those contained in official LifeVantage materials. In particular, no Independent Distributor may make any claim that LifeVantage products are useful in the cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of disease. Not only are such claims violations of LifeVantage policies, but they potentially violate applicable laws, including, but not limited to, federal and state laws and regulations, such as the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and Federal Trade Commission Act.”
       https://www.lifevantage.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/US-Policies-Procedures-V.02-1.pdf

       Steve Jackson said: “The company policy does allow for personal testimonials, as long as they don’t say something like this: ‘Protandim cured my cancer’.”

       That’s clearly not true based on section 8.3.2 quoted above. You may not make any claims or use any testimonial that suggests the product is useful for the “cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation, or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of diseases”. That goes well beyond stating that it cures cancer and clearly precludes the testimonial you gave here; i.e., implying that it mitigates rheumatoid arthritis pain/symptoms. To recap, what you said was: “after taking Protandim for just over 30 days, the joint pain and pain associated with my arthritis had diminished to the point that I could play basketball again.” That clearly violates company policy (which they sadly don’t enforce at all) and US law.
       http://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/comment-page-31/#comment-150159

       Steve Jackson said: “I made no implicit statements that Protandim cured me of anything.”

       That doesn’t matter and you are being purposely obtuse. Again, you are not allowed to use any claims or testimonials suggesting that the product is useful for the “cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation, or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of diseases”. Whether or not you used the word “cure” is clearly immaterial. It’s inconceivable that you can’t understand something so simple.

       Steve Jackson said: “You can provide me your email address and I will gladly send you my LifeVantage Distributor ID.”

       Why not just post it here? You said you stand behind your claims, so make good on that and stand behind your claims. If you want send your ID # to someone, send it to Joe.

       Steve Jackson said: “Not allowed to post it in this forum.”

       Yes you are. There is absolutely no policy precluding you from doing so. You are a BS artist.

       Steve Jackson said: “The Cannon review did publish the following from the human runners study: “Protandim did not reduce TBARS or alter levels of antioxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase (SOD)…however…in those over age 35, Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo.” What part of Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo do you NOT understand?”

       I understand the study far better than you do and my response was a reply to the following specific claim you made: “the runners study which shows that the Protandim runners had TWICE the levels of SOD as the placebo group is of any value. And even this one, the sample size is 38 runners.” You made a blanket statement that was simply false. As you quoted above, the authors of the runner’s study clearly concluded that in the overall population of 38 runners, SOD was not significantly affected. The footnotes of the study indicate that LifeVantage initiated a subsequent post-hoc sub-analysis after the study was completed, and Protandim had already been found to have failed to meet the endpoint of increasing SOD levels. Furthermore, that sub-analysis included only a tiny subgroup of 8 male runners over the age of 35, and the finding itself is meaningless because it wasn’t part of the original study design, as indicated byut the following statement from the authors:

       “GSZ was the principal investigator for the grant from LifeVantage that funded graduate student stipends. LifeVantage also paid for equipment, supplies, independent blood analyses, conferences, and publication fees LifeVantage had no role in study design or data collection. They did, however, have access to the de-identified raw data of which an independent statistician hired by them verified our analyses. In a sub-analysis that their statistician performed, they showed that SOD increased in subjects equal to and greater than 35 years of age. While age related changes in SOD with supplementation was not made a priori, we added the results to the manuscript and discuss the ramifications of performing unplanned statistical tests in the manuscript. LifeVantage also received the manuscript draft as per agreement and provided some suggestions for improvement. GSZ accepted some of their suggestions on improvement, including the reporting of the unplanned age-related changes in SOD with supplementation.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/pdf/pone.0160559.pdf

       It is a case of LifeVantage moving the goal posts (changing the hypothesis and/or endpoints after a study is completed simply because the results are damning), which is something that only crap/dishinest researchers do, and it confirms once again the biasing/corrupting influence of MLM involvement in product research.
       https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852589/

       Fortunately in this case, the authors were decent enough to admit that LifeVantage was responsible for inserting the garbage data into the manuscript at the last minute, and the company did that so that the study wouldn’t look like a complete failure. Of course, this sketchy sub-analysis in 8 males runners then ends up being hyped by dishonest distributors like you who either can’t understand the scientific nuances or simply don’t care that the overall results showed no change in SOD levels. If you were remotely honest, the best you might be able to say is that the product might increase your SOD levels if you are a male runner over the age of 35 (and then again it might not because the sample size was too small to tell) but it won’t do anything if you are a female runner (regardless of age) or a male runner under 35. But that’s not remotely what you said. Instead, you were dishonest.

       Steve Jackson said: “Your comment about Ohio State, LSU and Virigina being “middling universities” was a blanket statement intended to discredit their work.”

       No it was simply an incidental reality check for you when your gratuitously name-dropped OSU and Virginia Commonwealth University as though that should impress us. It’s the results that matter, not the names of universities, and you simply do not understand them.

       Steve Jackson said: “And when you are faced with the fact that Ohio State and Virigina are well ranked Medical research Universities, you want to avoid the fact that you were WRONG about the quality of those Universities…”

       You are beating this dead horse because you have lost every single argument you have tried to make to date. Get over it; OSU and Virginia Commonwealth University are middling universities (and middling is generous in the case of VCU), and it’s not really important. What matters is that the only 3 randomized controlled clinical trials of the product to date showed it to be an epic failure; not the names of schools or this outdated and deprecated in vitro research that you’re clinging to so desperately.
       https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

       Steve Jackson said: “As a former US Navy service member, I fought for our country and that experience taught me to stand up for what I believe in.”

       We can’t know one way or the other whether you served, but in any case the Navy teaches one to take orders from their superiors, not to stand up for what one believes in. I also don’t think you actually believe the crap you’re saying. No one could be that immune to facts and logic. You’re doubling down on BS that any fool could sniff out.

       Steve Jackson said: “So, to recap…”

       Yes, let’s recap. You made a testimonial about Protandim alleviating arthritis pain, which violates your distributor agreement and US law, then when confronted with the transgression you denied doing so and demonstrated your ignorance. You misrepresented the results of the runner study, failing to acknowledge (or concede when corrected) that it failed to meet its endpoint of SOD reduction in the study population, and then ignored the other 2 clinical trials confirming that the product doesn’t work. You failed to furnish your distributor ID#, while lying about how you stand behind your claims, and then you whined about being a victim of bullying. You’ve made at least a dozen false and misleading statements and haven’t made a single cogent point since your flurry of irate posting began.

       Steve Jackson said: “And as far as Protandim is concerned, as long as it is available and my wife and I will be consumers of this product.”

       No you won’t. You seem like a slow learner so I’d give it probably a year until you give up and move on to another loser MLM selling diet shakes or some other worthless overhyped snakeoil crap. Then you’ll be back to trolling the boards repeating the same old BS all over again.

       Steve Jackson said: “Add that to the fact that you have already admitted that you are not a scientist. Why should anyone believe a word you say…”

       I didn’t say anything of the kind, and I’m getting pretty sick of you wasting whitespace with such nonsense. What I say can be believed because I back it up with airtight facts and sound arguments. Saying that I’m a scientist shouldn’t have any bearing on someone’s ability to follow a URL a simple line of logic.

       Steve Jackson said: “Dropping the mic.”

       You are clinically delusional if you think your lame performance here is worthy of a mic drop. You have shamed yourself and the company to the point where I can only assume that you lack the gene for embarrassment.

       Reply

9. DMAN says

   October 6, 2017 at 11:32 am

   Vogel says: ” A Lot of Things” that seem to be very personal to him. I’m curious; what’s your story Vogel? Why do you concern yourself so much with folks who are looking to help their current situation?

   You speak bad against the product (relating only to 3 studies – that showed no significant increase) while forgoing the evidence of the other 20 studies that are out there. BTW-those studies are not provided by the company LifeVantage… those are peer reviewed studies from within the medical profession.

   It is a proven fact that Protandim reduces Oxidative Stress by 40% in 30 days (FDA approved this claim) Have you researched the approval process for patents on products like this? A Patent can only be given if the product is proven to be far more significant than what it is originally claimed to be. How many patents does this product have? 6…

   And as for people’s personal testimonials to how this product has helped them… who are you to take that away? Just because a claim is not made does not mean that that it didn’t do something significant in that persons life.

   And as for the Class Action Lawsuit that was filed last year… (Ambulance Chasers – no different). Research your own claims please – company had to pull out of one of their countries due to governmental practices which caused the stock to implode. (That’s Business)

   I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I truly am!

   Reply

   • Vogel says

     October 6, 2017 at 6:25 pm

     DMAN said: “Vogel says A Lot of Things that seem to be very personal to him. I’m curious; what’s your story Vogel? Why do you concern yourself so much with folks who are looking to help their current situation?”

     That’s something that only a very myopic and frustrated Protandim distributor would say. To anyone else, it would be obvious that my comments and not personal but rather focused on the facts about the product and the company.

     Your curiosity about my “story” is misplaced. This isn’t about me; it’s about Protandim/LifeVantage, so stay on topic please.

     Lastly, I have no concern whatsoever about this ill-defined nebulous group of people “looking to help their current situation” (whatever that’s supposed means) to which you refer. I am concerned for people who are seeking information about the product and company; their needs have been well met.

     DMAN said: “You speak bad against the product (relating only to 3 studies – that showed no significant increase) while forgoing the evidence of the other 20 studies that are out there. BTW-those studies are not provided by the company LifeVantage… those are peer reviewed studies from within the medical profession.”

     This feels like explaining calculus to a block of granite. I have repeatedly cited 3 recent randomized controlled clinical trials (RCTs) because they are the only minimally well-designed studies in humans to date; and all showed that the product did essentially nothing. That you would dismiss those studies in favor of the company’s earlier test tube and animal studies (and evidence that you chose not to cite) suggests that, not surprisingly, you really don’t have the faintest clue about scientific research or how to interpret it. That’s what happens when you commission ill-equipped know-nothings to flog nutritional products.

     BTW, “those studies” you speak of were all tainted by financial conflict of interest, having been authored and/or funded by the company and/or its employees.

     DMAN said: “It is a proven fact that Protandim reduces Oxidative Stress by 40% in 30 days (FDA approved this claim).”

     No it isn’t (and no the FDA didn’t). I can only assume that today is your first day as a Protandim sales-hack, otherwise you wouldn’t have said something so demonstrably false. Three consecutive clinical trials have now proven that the product does not lower oxidative stress (or do much of anything else) in people who take the product.
     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330762/
     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/
     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

     The FDA does not approve product claims for dietary supplements and most certainly did not approve the claim to which you referred. In fact, the FDA just this year censured LifeVantage over the company’s false and illegal marketing claims.
     https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcementactions/warningletters/2017/ucm554234.htm

     DMAN said: “Have you researched the approval process for patents on products like this? A Patent can only be given if the product is proven to be far more significant than what it is originally claimed to be.”

     Wrong again. We can add patents to the long list of things that you don’t understand in the slightest. Patents are not demonstrations, nor an acknowledgement, of efficacy. They merely offer intellectual property protection for a unique idea, or in this case, a particular combination of herbs (that has been proven to be ineffective).

     DMAN said: “And as for people’s personal testimonials to how this product has helped them… who are you to take that away?”

     I don’t understand what you mean by “take that away”. I can’t do anything of the kind. I can merely point out, correctly, that testimonials: (a) are not reliable evidence of anything (and never have been, according to the courts, scientific method, common sense, etc.); (b) are considered red flags of scams and scammers (as is oft pointed out by US regulatory agencies and consumer protection organizations); and (c) are used by all the scammy MLMs out there, in the absence of concrete evidence, to deceptively hustle their worthless rip-off products (not one of which has ever been born out to do anything whatsoever for health).

     A better question than “who are you?” is why would anyone believe it when disembodied anonymous blog commenters (who are all without a doubt distributor and trolls) claim that Protandim was responsible for a range of impossible medical miracles, especially given what we know about MLM marketing in general and this company in particular. There are words to describe people who fall for things like that: e.g., unfortunate victim, sucker, rube, naif, dolt, etc. All MLMs produce these throwaway testimonials by the boatload, and collectively they amount to nothing but evidence of the lengths that some unscrupulous people will go to con the public.

     While it is a fact that anonymous MLM testimonials serve as little more than a trigger for skepticism, in the case of Protandim, they are resoundingly contradicted by multiple clinical trials showing that the product does nothing; not even the most fundamental of actions that it is claimed to have, such as lowering oxidative stress or upregulating SOD. In other words, it is proven to not do the things that the testimonials suggest.

     Not only are your testimonials provably false, they are also predatory and dangerous. There is a very low level in hell for those who sell fake medicine to the sick.

     DMAN said: “Just because a claim is not made does not mean that that it didn’t do something significant in that persons life.”

     Now you’re just grasping at straws. I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. It just sounds desperate and whiny, and like a weary tacit admission of defeat.

     DMAN said: “And as for the Class Action Lawsuit that was filed last year… (Ambulance Chasers – no different). Research your own claims please – company had to pull out of one of their countries due to governmental practices which caused the stock to implode. (That’s Business)”

     I’m not sure what detail you’re referring to but if you have any worthwhile evidence pertaining to the class action lawsuit, simply produce it.

     DMAN said: “I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I truly am!”

     You’re prolonging my bad experience. Be sorry for that instead.

     Reply

     • Steve Jackson says

       October 13, 2017 at 11:42 am

       Vogel,

       I used Protandim for 16 months in 2011 to 2012. At the time, I was overweight by more than 50 lbs based on the chart provided my my physician. The key reason for this was that I had developed RA. I assume that was because of all the sports I played until into my early 40’s. I also had a foot surgery to remove a bone spur in my foot. The scar tissue that remained would cause me significant pain after running. My foot would throb in pain after high and extended levels of running. It was very painful. As someone who enjoyed playing basketball, it was difficult to play because of the pain in my foot and the pain I would experience in my knees, hips and ankles due to my arthritis.

       After taking Protandim for just over 30 days, the joint pain and pain associated with my Arthritis had diminished to the point that I could play basketball again. In fact, I played one day for hours and fully expected to feel the throbbing in my right foot associated with the scar tissue from my foot surgery. I was very surprised to find that I had zero pain other than some typical muscle soreness which, surprisingly to me, went away fairly quickly the next day.

       Because I was pain free, I started to work out again, and lost quite a bit of weight. Shortly thereafter, I lost my job and had to make some financial cut backs. One of those being my Protandim.

       For the first few months after, I started to feel a bit more pain in my knees, ankles and hip as well as my right foot started to throb slightly again. Not there longafter, I started to have all of the pain slowly come back and instead of trying to get back on Protandim, I simply treated it with Aleve (Naproxin) like a lot of people I know do.

       In 2014-2016, I gained weight again due to the fact that I was not as active. Wanting to lose the weight and take added stress of being overweight off my joints, I began to work out again in combination with a decent and healthier diet. I was able to lose weight, but the RA and overall problem areas associated with my arthritis had me in big time pain. This summer (July 2017), I was 9 weeks into the Insanity program by Beach Body when I finally couldn’t take the knee pain. The inflammation in my body was causing my hip to hurt, my ankles, and my back. But the biggest problem was my right knee. It was severe pain. I was convinced that I had torn a ligament because in my mind, arthritis pain could never be this bad.

       I had X-rays taken and a full MRI as well which indicated the problem was purely associated with Arthritis. The doctor said the only way to manage the pain was with Opiods and Naproxin.

       Having remembered how good I felt when I was on Protandim previously, I decided to get back on Protandim because of the success that I had previously had when I took the product. And as far as my testimonial, I will personally send you copies of my doctor’s notes and MRI results as well as pictures of the prescription pain pill bottles to validate my diagnosis and the recommended treatment. Obviously, I can’t prove to you my current healthy state. All I can say is that I am taking Protandim NRF1 and NRF2 (and by the way – NRF stands for Nuclear Respiratory Factor).

       I have never been a big fan of MLM, because inherently, you do make a good point, there are bad apples that misrepresent the company or the benefit of the product.

       But, that said, in my mind, Protandim had worked for me not only once, but now, a second time. In less then a month, my pain is dramatically reduced. I no longer need pain pills to go to sleep. I do not wake up in the middle of the night. So, I have become a distributor and, full disclosure, I am a believer in the product, but not so much in terms of the clinical research, which, like you said, how many company’s have peer clinical research from Universities likes The Ohio State University, Virginia, Washington State, and LSU… which I find it funny that you left the LSU mice study out of your review.

       Despite being a mice study – the results of the LSU study were pretty stunning:

       “ Importantly, at the end of the carcinogenesis study, both skin tumor incidence and multiplicity were reduced in the mice on the Protandim diet by 33% and 57% respectively, compared with those on basal diet. Biochemical and histological studies revealed that the Protandim diet suppressed tumor promoter-induced oxidative stress (evidenced by reduction of protein carbonyl levels), cell proliferation (evidenced by reduction of skin hyperplasia and suppression of PKC/JNK/Jun pathway), and inflammation (evidenced by reduction of ICAM-1/VCAM-1 expression, NF-kappaB binding activity, and nuclear p65/p50 levels). Overall, induction of antioxidant enzymes by Protandim may serve as a practical and potent approach for cancer prevention.”

       Now, before you go and say that by posting the actual words from the LSU study that I am claiming that Protandim can do that for humans, I am NOT saying that!

       Now, I totally agree with you about the false claims. NO independent Lifevantage distributor should EVER, nor the company itself represent protandim as a means to cure any disease. The Lifevantage Policy and Procedures strictly prohibit making any such claim. You stated that Lifevantage has not changed their website, and maybe that is true when you last reviewed it, however, I see company has done a indeed cleaned up all corporate websites. And I do believe that the other websites in question were those of Independent Distributors, and did not accurately reflect the company’s policy with regards to representing the claims of the product.

       Personally, I make no such claims. Protandim is NOT a cure for cancer, alzhiemers, arhritis, or any other disease that takes advantage of high levels of oxidative stress in the body. Protandim does make the following claim, that it will reduce your oxidative stress by an average for 40% in 30 days.

       What happens after you take Protandim is a function of how effective your body’s operates with less oxidate stress in your body. You are correct in saying that the human clinical studies are inconclusive. However, in the runner’s study, which is made up of very healthy individuals, you seem to gloss over the fact that the Protandim group had TWICE the level of SOD’s. Since SOD’s are key in fighting free radicals, is that NOT a very important fact to point out in your report?

       The Alcoholic Human study is not a valid study in the fact that the participants only took Protandim for 7 days. I would think that you would have pointed that out.

       Because of my personal experience with Protandim, I do not view the product as “fake medicine.” Protandim is NOT a drug.

       Personally, I know far more people who have success stories who have taken Protandim than those who have taken taken it and reported not feeling any improvement in their health.

       I would like Lifevantage to sponsor some more peer reviewed human clinical studies as I believe that would beneficial to everyone who might evaluate the product.

       Your points about Lifevantage Distributors that make false or misleading claims is one that from what I understand the company is working on cleaning up, as well they should. But to summarily dismiss the premise that reducing your oxidative stress levels in your body might not have a positive impact on your overall health is ignoring the very science that you have referenced or any of the other 20,000 plus clinical studies published on Pubmed.gov.

       And please, Mr. Vogel, before you launch an attack on me and my personal experience with Protandim. Please note that I have been civil and professional to you. There is not need to diminish me because I have had a positive experience with Protandim or that I responsibly represent Lifevantage as an Independent Distributor. I am not misguided or misinformed. I did my homework and more importantly, I have had not ONE, but TWO separate instances in taking Protandim and have had success BOTH times. Now, let’s say that I am an outlier. I PERSONALLY know quite a few people that have experienced tremendous results with their health after taking Protandim. I also know a couple that I have not. But my personal experience, combined with the people I know, the clinical research as well as the hundreds of online video testimonials I have seen make me a believer in this product.

       If you go online, you will find quite a few Protandim testimonials from real people on Youtube. Are all of those people fake? Does my personal experience count for nothing?

       Lastly, I am just curious. Did you try Protandim as part of your research and report on the product? Although, you accurately state that the ingredients in Protandim are safe, I didn’t read whether or not you actually tried Protandim for yourself. I would be curious to know if you had Arthritis or any aches and pains associated with growing older or if you are already taking a product that is working for you?

       As for me, I am only 10 lbs over what the doctor says is ideal for my height and weight. And I attribute a lot of my success to Protandim because I can work out and move without the debilitating pain I was experiencing before getting back on Protandim.

       Feel free to publish my name if you want. I am not hiding from anyone or anything and will gladly communicate with anyone that wants more information about my personal experience with Protandim.

       Reply

       • Vogel says

         October 13, 2017 at 8:42 pm

         Steve Jackson said: “Vogel, I used Protandim for 16 months in 2011 to 2012….etc.”

         That anonymous tale is absolutely worthless to me, which you should have been able to anticipate by reading my previous comments on MLM testimonials as anything other than ammunition for deceptive/illegal marketing. Since you’re a distributor, your fairy tale also crosses legal boundaries, so either you just don’t care or are unable to recognize it.

         Your willingness, and that of other hawkers of this worthless product, to break the law is disturbing to say the least, and the use of these obviously fallacious stories is identical to the marketing tactics that corrupt vendors of worthless snakeoil products have been using for centuries.

         Steve Jackson said: “And as far as my testimonial, I will personally send you copies of my doctor’s notes and MRI results as well as pictures of the prescription pain pill bottles to validate my diagnosis and the recommended treatment.”

         You’re not going to personally send me anything, and if you think that doing so would have any value, then you really don’t understand how science works.

         Steve Jackson said: “I have never been a big fan of MLM, because inherently, you do make a good point, there are bad apples that misrepresent the company or the benefit of the product.”

         Case in bloody point eh? So far today you have blatantly misrepresented the results of one of the clinical trials and broken the law by posting an illicit testimonial about the product having miraculous medicinal benefits. If I may mix metaphors, you are the proverbial bad apple calling the kettle black.

         Steve Jackson said: “I am a believer in the product, but not so much in terms of the clinical research, which, like you said, how many company’s have peer clinical research from Universities likes The Ohio State University, Virginia, Washington State, and LSU… which I find it funny that you left the LSU mice study out of your review. Despite being a mice study – the results of the LSU study were pretty stunning.”

         I never said anything of the kind. The only thing I find remarkable about the research is that company still bothers to initiate, fund, and hype it, given that the clinical trials have proven that the product is utterly worthless. There is nothing at all interesting about the mouse study. It was co-authored by Joe McCord who was paid millions to endorse the product and it was funded by LifeVantage (both of which represent potential conflicts); it was published in a crap-grade open-access journal (PLoS One); the results were never replicated (nor was any follow-up ever performed after almost a decade; it is contradicted by the clinical studies (i.e., in humans) showing that the product doesn’t do anything; and legally, you cannot use mouse studies to support any therapeutic claims about the product.

         And FYI, Juice Plus (possibly the only other MLM that gives LifeVantage a run for the money in the moronic BS department) has way more published studies than Protandim does (and collectively they are just about as worthless too).

         And another FYI, you shouldn’t mention schools like OSU, LSU, etc. thinking that it will impress people; they are middling colleges and it comes across as trying to baffle people with BS, as though the name of the school is more important than what the results of the studies actually showed.

         Steve Jackson said: “Now, I totally agree with you about the false claims. NO independent Lifevantage distributor should EVER, nor the company itself represent protandim as a means to cure any disease.”

         It’s not just claims of a “cure” that are illegal; it is any claim stating or implying that that the product can prevent, cure, treat, or alleviate the symptoms of any disease or medical condition. And in fact you made such a claim just today when you told us that BS tale about how the product alleviated the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis.
         https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=101.93

         Steve Jackson said: “The Lifevantage Policy and Procedures strictly prohibit making any such claim.”

         Anyone can plainly see that it is nothing more than lip service designed for PR and to provide a modicum of liability mitigation. As you did just today, the company violates the law with their bogus marketing claims about therapeutic benefits, and the FDA busted them for it finally this year. https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcementactions/warningletters/2017/ucm554234.htm

         Steve Jackson said: “You stated that Lifevantage has not changed their website, and maybe that is true when you last reviewed it, however, I see company has done a indeed cleaned up all corporate websites.”

         (1) I did not state anything of the kind; (2) if the company cleaned up their act after getting nailed by the FDA, it’s no cause for celebration, as they are merely doing the bare minimum, after getting caught, to not get further mired in legal jeopardy, which could ultimately lead to them being shutdown outright or fined out of existence; and (3) I just had a look and apparently they didn’t clean-up the offending websites mentioned in the FDA citation. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I’d like to see it.

         Steve Jackson said: “And I do believe that the other websites in question were those of Independent Distributors, and did not accurately reflect the company’s policy with regards to representing the claims of the product.”

         Your “belief” is once again at odds with reality. The sites were in fact registered to the company; not that it would matter either way because they would be held legally responsible in any event. In fact, one of the URLs included in the citation was the company’s main URL (lifevantage.com) so your attempt to whitewash this is truly mind boggling.

         Steve Jackson said: “Personally, I make no such claims.”

         Well, yes you do, obviously. It’s stunning that you can even say that with a straight face.

         Steve Jackson said: “Protandim is NOT a cure for cancer, alzhiemers, arhritis, or any other disease that takes advantage of high levels of oxidative stress in the body.”

         Yeah, no guff. IThe list of things it doesn’t do is virtually endless, especially since it has been proven to not actually do anything.

         Steve Jackson said: “Protandim does make the following claim, that it will reduce your oxidative stress by an average for 40% in 30 days.”

         Yes, and even that has been disproven 3 times over, so it’s about time they stopped saying it.

         Steve Jackson said: “You are correct in saying that the human clinical studies are inconclusive.”

         No, it would be quite incorrect if someone said that. The studies have conclusively proven that the product doesn’t do anything.

         Steve Jackson said: “And please, Mr. Vogel…I am not misguided or misinformed.”

         Well clearly you are both. It’s also impolitic of you to address me as “Mr. Vogel” given that I have never said a word about my gender. Just “Vogel” will suffice in the future should you decide to waste more of everyone’s time by replying back with more nonsense. False modesty will only piss me off.

         Steve Jackson said: “If you go online, you will find quite a few Protandim testimonials from real people on Youtube.”

         Are you seriously directing people to illegal videos from distributors in which the product is being marketed as a drug, and after all your lame protestations about how the company and its distributors aren’t doing all the nasty things that everyone can plainly see they are doing?

         Steve Jackson said: “Are all of those people fake?”

         What, like holograms? No, I think the people are real, sadly. But their stories are fake; illegal and revolting too.

         Steve Jackson said: “Does my personal experience count for nothing?”

         You mean your story of what you allege was your personal experience? Worse than counting for nothing, it proves that you are illicitly marketing the product and apparently either lack the wits to recognize it or the integrity to admit it.

         Reply

         • Steve Jackson says

           October 15, 2017 at 5:37 am

           Vogel said: “at anonymous tale is absolutely worthless to me, which you should have been able to anticipate by reading my previous comments on MLM testimonials as anything other than ammunition for deceptive/illegal marketing. Since you’re a distributor, your fairy tale also crosses legal boundaries, so either you just don’t care or are unable to recognize it.”

           My tale is NOT anonymous. I posted my first name and last name, not hiding. You simply come across as cynical and willing to say anything to attack a product that helped me and continues to help me immensely. Further, I was NOT a distributor the first time I took the product. I am a distributor now and I always clearly notify and inform all that I work with and represent that Protandim is not intended to treat, cure, or prevent disease. I am confident that there are people that do not already have high levels of oxidative stress that the product, if taken, would not be of significant impact on helping their bodies benefit from further reduction of oxidative stress in their body.

           Vogel said “Your willingness, and that of other hawkers of this worthless product, to break the law is disturbing to say the least, and the use of these obviously fallacious stories is identical to the marketing tactics that corrupt vendors of worthless snakeoil products have been using for centuries.”

           I am not breaking the law by relaying a personal testimony. What law are you referring to? And what law school did you graduate from? Is your specific expertise related to supplement marketing practices? Get real. Let me ask you this Vogel, does a human benefit from reduced oxidative stress in the body? Yes or no? You never answered that from the previous question I asked.

           Vogel Said: “You’re not going to personally send me anything, and if you think that doing so would have any value, then you really don’t understand how science works.”

           It’s clear that your Protandim “Critical Review” and subsequent forum posts are not intended to really conduct a solid review. Your posts clearly show that you are 100% in attack mode. What qualifies you to “understand” science more than anyone else that has posted? You avoided 95% of the positive aspects of the clinical reviews available and completely avoided others (Washington State) – those interested, please read the research for yourself.

           Vogel said: “And another FYI, you shouldn’t mention schools like OSU, LSU, etc. thinking that it will impress people; they are middling colleges and it comes across as trying to baffle people with BS, as though the name of the school is more important than what the results of the studies actually showed.”

           Out of 140 accredited medical schools, Ohio States ranks 31st per US News and World Report. Forbes also has a top 30 ranking. LSU is unranked because it is unreviewed, however, that is only because it did not provide the material needed. LSU is a well funded National medical research school and Virgina is ranked 27th as a research school and 24th as a primary care medical center. To closemindedly disregard the efforts of the highly qualified medical researchers as “middling colleges” shows that you are simply going to trash anyone and any institution that has had something positive to say about Protandim research.

           Vogel says: “It’s not just claims of a “cure” that are illegal; it is any claim stating or implying that that the product can prevent, cure, treat, or alleviate the symptoms of any disease or medical condition. And in fact you made such a claim just today when you told us that BS tale about how the product alleviated the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis.”
           https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=101.93

           Vogel, I already said that my statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. And that Protandim is no intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. To relay my personal experience does violate any FDA edict because I have no way of knowing if someone with similar symptoms will have the same results. Although, you would suggest that it is foolish for someone to try a product that does have peer reviewed clinical research supporting its claim to reduce oxidative stress by 40% – by the way, the company hasn’t had to take that down from the updated and FDA review website.

           “Vogel Said” Your “belief” is once again at odds with reality. The sites were in fact registered to the company; not that it would matter either way because they would be held legally responsible in any event. In fact, one of the URLs included in the citation was the company’s main URL (lifevantage.com) so your attempt to whitewash this is truly mind boggling.”

           Read what I said. The main site http://www.lifevantage.com has been completely refaced and is in compliance. I never said that site was not owned by the Lifevantage. I doubt you will accurately go to the site – but if you do – please show me where it is not updated. Good luck with that.

           Vogel said: “Well, yes you do, obviously. It’s stunning that you can even say that with a straight face.”

           Because a personal testimony is allowed and it is TRUE. You can discount my statements as well as the others but there are a lot of forum posts that have very positive reviews in contrary to your claim that Protandim is worthless.

           Vogel said: “No, it would be quite incorrect if someone said that. The studies have conclusively proven that the product doesn’t do anything.”

           Actually, the runner’s study concluded that SOD levels among the Protandim group was TWICE that of the placebo group. Yeah, you certainly didn’t want to tackle that point. You NEVER answered If SOD’s eliminate free radicals, and fewer free radicals make for a healthier body, how is this not significant? Clearly the runner’s study proves that Protandim can double your levels of SOD’s.

           Vogels says: “Are you seriously directing people to illegal videos from distributors in which the product is being marketed as a drug, and after all your lame protestations about how the company and its distributors aren’t doing all the nasty things that everyone can plainly see they are doing?”

           No, I would only refer you to the videos of non-distributers who have posted compelling story after compelling story. Why would so many people post youtube testimonials who have nothing to gain as they are simply users of the product like I was the first time that I took the product? Yeah – it’s all ONE HUGE conspiracy theory and the thousand of people that take Protandim and continue to take it are all just throwing money down the drain because they have had ZERO benefit from the product. Yeah, that’s it.

           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4906181/
           The oxidative damage biomarkers (lipid, proteins, uric acid, and DNA oxidation) were also analyzed, aside from the free radicals. In these studies it was shown that the oxidative damage biomarkers are consistently and significantly higher in RA patients if compared to control individuals; this increment was observed in any sample analyzed (serum, plasma, erythrocytes, urine, synovial fluid, and whole blood). An oxidative stress environment prevails in RA, which results in the oxidation of biomolecules in this disease.
           So, this study clearly shows that oxidative stress and RA are lniked. I don’t think it takesa rocket scientist to conclude that if you can reduce your oxidative stress levels, your body can better hep fight off disease.

           https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272189475_Nrf2_a_master_regulator_of_detoxification_and_also_antioxidant_antiinflammatory_and_other_cytoprotective_mechanisms_is_raised_by_health_promoting_factors

           It is not surprising, therefore, that a large number of chronic diseases characterized by oxidative stress, inflammation and often mitochondrial function can be treated and/or prevented by raising Nrf2, at least in animal models (Fig. 1, right). Nor should it be surprising that Nrf2 has been proposed to produce both lifespan and health span extension, given the many diseases of aging characterized by oxidative stress, inflammation and mitochondrial dysfunction.

           While no doubt it is too early to make a conclusion, it is difficult to escape the suggestion, from Tables 1 and 4, that we may be on the verge of a new literature on health effects of Nrf2 which may well become the most extraordinary therapeutic and most extraordinary preventive breakthrough in the history of medicine. It is our opinion that raising Nrf2 is likely to be the
           most important health promoting approach into the foreseeable future.

           By not showing this research – you fail to disclose and let the average person read the study for themselves and draw their own conclusions. I’m confident that your angry bias and disdain for Direct sales will lead you to try and tear down the Washington State / Portland State research.

           A Molecular Bioscientist by the name of Dr. Martin Pall is a non factor because Washington State is a “Middling” school despite the fact that Dr. Pall has won 8 international awards, was the 2014 Jonathon Forman Award winner for the Academy of Environmental Medicine, who’s papers have been featured in numerous respected medicine journals as currently serves with Professor emeritus status in the biochemistry and basic medical sciences is to be completely discredited for his study because Washington State is a “Middling’ University” because it only ranks 74th among medical research universities.

           And of course, you will scream, well, it hasn’t been published yet. Yeah, key word “yet” – that’s in process but the research paints a very favorable outlook of what life with less oxidative stress might be able to do for people who reduce it.

           Vogel says: “You mean your story of what you allege was your personal experience? Worse than counting for nothing, it proves that you are illicitly marketing the product and apparently either lack the wits to recognize it or the integrity to admit it.”

           I stand behind my story 100% because it is the truth. You can attack the voracity the truth of my personal testimonial, but people should be allowed to see both sides of the debate and make up their own minds. I am not marketing the product in this forum. I have not posted a link where to buy the product or any of my contact information, THAT would-be marketing sunshine. Apparently, you lack the wit to recognize that fact or the Axe you have to grind blinds you so badly that you are incapable of a non-bias “Critical” review”. You come across like you are some sort of “investigative reporter”, but when you refuse to post your blood work results from day zero to day 90 – oh wait – you didn’t take the product, how would you KNOW?

           Did you give it to anyone to try that could help you do a Critical Review? Nope. Yeah, great job on the review Vogel. I’ll take my personal experience and those of real people that I have met and listened to versus a full on debate about the clinical research. Because, even if my exposure of personally knowing around 30 people who have had tremendously positive results by taking Protandim and only a couple of have not – I see the product as having a higher probability of helping people lower their oxidative stress and hopefully have positive results for their overall health by doing so.

           I KNOW I have and am hopeful that many others will experience positive results by taking Protandim. That is not a claim that they will. But a body with less oxidative stress IS a GOOD thing and I personally would recommend people reduce their oxidative stress -whether it be with Eng3’s oxidative stress reduction machine, or people feed their cells more oxygen using HBOT (Hyperbaric Chamber Oxygen Therapy). Protandim is not the only mechanism available for reducing oxidative stress in the body.

           Although Lifevantage has had some self inflicted problems. Those problems are being rectified and addressed responsibly. People and companies make mistakes. If Protandim didn’t work, people wouldn’t continue to use the product. The huge following that Protandim and Petandim have cannot be ignored.

           Fair minded and unbiased people who read your “critical review” will be able to read the posts of other Protandim users, as well as our exchange here and be able to make up their minds for themselves.

           I do not mind responding to your posts because I think it is beneficial for people who view this site to see both side and once again have the ability to make up their own mind. Your review clearly states the Protandim ingredients are safe. So, perhaps when people do review this forum, they will hopefully make their own conclusion based on the information provided. And hopefully they do review online testimonials from non-lifevantage distributors to see what real people have to see about their protandim experience.

           You can’t bully me Vogel. I will read your replies with an open mind despite the vitriol with which you choose to communicate. And if you make a good point, I will concede that as I did in my first response to your review/post comments.

           Look forward to your response. Mr./Mrs Vogel.

         • Vogel says

           October 15, 2017 at 2:13 pm

           Steve Jackson said: “My tale is NOT anonymous. I posted my first name and last name, not hiding.”

           Except we don’t know who generic “Steve Jackson” is (or even if he exists), so in practical terms, yes, your tale is anonymous. More importantly, none of the details can be verified. If you are trying to argue that such testimonials have any value, then you are simply doubling down on a losing argument.

           Steve Jackson said: “Further, I was NOT a distributor the first time I took the product. I am a distributor now.”

           So what? That distinction is unimportant. What is important is that your promotion of the product here (i.e., foolishly alleging that it can relieve arthritis pain) violates both the terms of your distributor agreement and US law.

           Steve Jackson said: “I am confident that there are people that do not already have high levels of oxidative stress that the product, if taken, would not be of significant impact on helping their bodies benefit from further reduction of oxidative stress in their body.”

           Your confidence is completely misplaced. You have no scientific data to support such an assertion. What the scientific data do show conclusively, however, is that the product doesn’t lower oxidative stress (or do anything else other than cause adverse events) in people who take it.

           Steve Jackson said: “I am not breaking the law by relaying a personal testimony. What law are you referring to?”

           Not only are you breaking the law but you are willfully violating the terms of your distributor agreement with the company (section 8.3.2 of LifeVantage Policies and Procedures), which states explicitly:

           “No claims, which include personal testimonials, as to therapeutic, curative or beneficial properties of any products offered by LifeVantage may be made except those contained in official LifeVantage materials. In particular, no Independent Distributor may make any claim that LifeVantage products are useful in the cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of disease. Not only are such claims violations of LifeVantage policies, but they potentially violate applicable laws, including, but not limited to, federal and state laws and regulations, such as the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and Federal Trade Commission Act.”
           https://www.lifevantage.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/US-Policies-Procedures-V.02-1.pdf

           How could that be any clearer?

           Steve Jackson said: “What qualifies you to “understand” science more than anyone else that has posted?”

           That’s a foolish red herring. The clinical 3 studies I have repeatedly referred to all explicitly state that the product lacks antioxidant effects in people who take the product. Whether or not I have scientific credentials is moot given that the bottom line is clearly spelled out in black and white. You, on the other hand, can’t even seem to understand (nor abide by) your distributor agreement, let alone a scientific article.

           Steve Jackson said: “Out of 140 accredited medical schools, Ohio States ranks 31st per US News and World Report.”

           Another red herring and more useless hair splitting. The study to which you referred was not authored by anyone from OSU School of Medicine; they were affiliated with the department of bioengineering. You have an uncanny inability to comprehend detail.
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167278

           Steve Jackson said: “Vogel, I already said that my statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.”

           No you didn’t, not that it would matter. Again, your distributor contract expressly forbids you from making the claims you made and you were either ignorant about what you signed or you just recklessly ignored it.

           Steve Jackson said: “Because a personal testimony is allowed and it is TRUE.”

           Now that you have been corrected, by rubbing your nose in section 8.2.2. of LifeVantage’s policies and procedures, which expressly states that such testimonials are not allowed and are illegal, I expect you to beg for everyone’s forgiveness.

           Steve Jackson said: “ “Actually, the runner’s study concluded that SOD levels among the Protandim group was TWICE that of the placebo group.”

           Since you are doubling down on BS, I will again quote for you the conclusion from the article which directly contradicts that assertion:

           “There was no change in TBARS, SOD, or GPX (at rest) after three months of Protandim supplementation compared to placebo.”
           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/pdf/pone.0160559.pdf

           Steve Jackson said: “Why would so many people post youtube testimonials who have nothing to gain as they are simply users of the product like I was the first time that I took the product?”

           So you’re seriously asking why people who are financially incentivized to promote a snakeoil MLM would promote a snakeoil MLM? Are you so wet behind the ears that you can’t comprehend the possibility of scammers lying to people for their own financial enrichment. Amazing!

           Steve Jackson said: “Yeah – it’s all ONE HUGE conspiracy theory…”

           Yes, I like your use of the word “conspiracy” and think it is quite apropos from a legal perspective. They should be prosecuted under RICO for conspiring to defraud.

           Steve Jackson said: “I stand behind my story 100% because it is the truth.”

           I’m glad to hear that you’re willing to stand behind your claim. Kindly provide your full contact information including your distributor ID# so that I can report you to LifeVantage’s compliance personnel. In reality, we know that you WON’T actually stand behind your story.

           Steve Jackson said: “If Protandim didn’t work, people wouldn’t continue to use the product.”

           The research proves that it doesn’t work, so it’s unfathomable why anyone would use the product unless they were just too ignorant/deceived to know better.

           Steve Jackson said: “I do not mind responding to your posts…”

           You would if you didn’t lack the gene for embarrassment.

           Steve Jackson said: “You can’t bully me Vogel.”

           Bully you? You’re awfully quick to adopt the posture of a victim. If you mean that you can’t be swayed you no matter how conclusive the evidence, that much is obvious, but it defies logic.

10. Daniel Taryane says

    September 10, 2017 at 1:26 pm

    I have used Protandim for 30 days and was debating whether I should re-order. To date I have not noticed any difference in energy level, cognitive function, or anti- inflammatory benefit. I heard about this product from a lady at an Alzheimer forum (she was a distributor). Needless to say, I will not be continuing with this product.

    Reply

    • Joe says

      September 10, 2017 at 6:06 pm

      Hi Daniel, thanks for sharing. For what its worth, I’m not aware of any studies of Protandim and Alzheimers disease.

      Reply

      • Michael kenny says

        September 24, 2017 at 9:50 am

        Amazing website!!!!
        But How many miracle-supplements will have to come and go before the general population will recognize they are ALL scams…? Sold with either the intention-to-defraud OR by delusional religious nitwits.

        Answer: there is NO number since hope and gullibility are always co-mingled in us humans and the less-educated amongst us still believe there are honest entrepreneurs!

        However MLMs ALWAYS indicate fraud….make nice in public with the FTC BUT behind closed doors say anything to close the sale.

        Coral calcium, colloidal minerals, Xango, Gogi berry, spirulina, the milk-diet, the no-milk-diet, Paleo, vegan etc etc. etc. etc. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

        Reply

        • Joe says

          September 24, 2017 at 10:26 am

          Hi Michael, thanks so much! I remember Coral Calcium and all those infomercials for it! Here’s my review on one of the guys behind coral calcium. Its the review that gets the most spam too, because of its topic.

          Reply

11. Joe says

    September 2, 2017 at 5:14 pm

    Hi guys, I’ve posted a review of another popular anti-aging supplement called Basis by Elysium. It has different ingredients than Protandim and is touted to work in a different way. Might be worth a look.

    http://supplementclarity.com/elysium-basis-review/

    Please leave any comments you may have -positive or not – on that page to keep that conversation different them from here.

    Reply

12. Vogel says

    August 25, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    Mich said: “I have been taking this supplement for about 2 years and have had great energy and never been sick (knock on wood) since taking the product.”

    That’s about the same amount of time I have been drinking organic coffee, and I haven’t been attacked by a bear since. Hopefully that’s sufficient to demonstrate the glaring flaw in your reasoning.

    Mich said: “I work in the medical field and have recommend this product to some of my patients (no- I am not a distributor).”

    Funny how those who say they “work in the medical field” turn out to have jobs like clinic receptionist, or worse still, are purveyors of absolute BS like magic healing crystals, etc. Saying that you work in “the medical field” seems to be synonymous with “I’m not a doctor” and “I lack relevant expertise”. If you had relevant expertise, you would have said so instead of positing a weak argument from authority. It also appears that you are using the phrase “my patients” euphemistically and what you really meant was “my victims”. In any case, you would be doing them a grave disservice by pushing a worthless discredited product. And your claim that you are not a distributor is not even remotely convincing.

    Mich said: “I think that this is a product that works well for many things but mostly auto-immune disorders etc. that (in my opinion) have no great medication for treatment and with many side effects that come along with those medications.”

    That’s an absurd opinion given that there isn’t a lick of evidence to support it. In fact, it would be downright foolish, putting it nicely, to believe that autoimmune disorders would be alleviated by a mundane product like Protandim (the sordid history of which is well documented) sold via a skeezy MLM pyramid scheme.

    With regard to side effects, you failed to mention that a recent randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial showed that Protandim produced a variety of adverse events (e.g., stomach ache, headache, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, dizziness, hypoglycemia) at a high rate and in a significant proportion of patients (up to a third) who took the product.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/pdf/pone.0160559.pdf

    Mich said: “I recommend a 90 day trial period- if it works great, if not- then move on to something else that maybe more beneficial.”

    I bet that that’s what all the scammers who sell this product tell their prey. You may as well be sticking a gun in their back and stealing that $100 directly out of their wallets. Shame! There is no reason to ever consider wasting even a single day taking such a worthless disreputable product.

    Mich said: “For the $40-50/moth on something natural that works well for me, I’m in- I’d rather be on this than for example a statin (which has a side effect of causing type 2 diabetes after longterm use) or a hypertensive medication etc. if this is all I need to keep my levels under control and within normal range.”

    Yeah and if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Protandim can’t in any way replace a statin or a hypertensive medication, obviously, and it is absurd to suggest that it would. There isn’t a lick of evidence that could prompt someone to believe such a thing. It’s about as ridiculous as saying that it makes you invisible or immune to gravity. And for the record, it’s not “natural”; it’s chemically extracted in a lab, and on a bad day, contaminated with metal shards.
    http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Manufacturers/LifeVantage-recalls-product-over-metal-contamination

    Reply

13. Mich says

    August 22, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    I have been taking this supplement for about 2 years and have had great energy and never been sick (knock on wood) since taking the product. My recovery time after long workouts are quick and I overall feel great while taking this product. I work in the medical field and have recommend this product to some of my patients (no- I am not a distributor).

    I think that this is a product that works well for many things but mostly auto-immune disorders etc. that (in my opinion) have no great medication for treatment and with many side effects that come along with those medications. I have seen it do great things- but like any supplement or medication takes a little bit of time to feel/see any results- I recommend a 90 day trial period- if it works great, if not- then move on to something else that maybe more beneficial.

    For the $40-50/moth on something natural that works well for me, I’m in- I’d rather be on this than for example a statin (which has a side effect of causing type 2 diabetes after longterm use) or a hypertensive medication etc. if this is all I need to keep my levels under control and within normal range.

    Reply

14. Bud says

    August 12, 2017 at 7:08 am

    I was just pitched Protandim at my neighbours house. I wanted to do more research before I spent any money. I am thankful for Vogel’s comments & research. I will not be taking or paying for their product.

    Reply

15. claudia roulier says

    August 1, 2017 at 9:55 pm

    Jahvet I guess the answer lies in an old saying “hope springs eternal”……..

    Reply

16. claudia roulier says

    July 30, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    Jb it is a pyramid scheme the higher you are the richer. Why don’t you get just say you are a distributor and get it done for crying out load…..company is going under btw if you haven’t noticed…

    Reply

    • Jahvet Thomas says

      August 1, 2017 at 7:54 pm

      If this company is failing they are still trying to sell their product. I just had a friend introduce me to her distributor with the sale pitch. I can’t quite understand why our society allows people to sell things that can’t or cannot be regulated by some authority level of our government.

      Reply

17. LisaRob says

    July 29, 2017 at 2:13 pm

    Well said, Vogel, as always. I don’t understand why all the illegal statements on Lifevantage’s websites are still up, way past the deadline the FDA gave them to remove them. Any insight on that? I wrote LaTonya Mitchell (who signed the warning letter), but didn’t get a response.

    Reply

    • Vogel says

      August 2, 2017 at 11:09 pm

      No Lisa but I was wondering the same thing. Doesn’t seem very prudent to dither and antagonize the FDA when it would be simple enough to just expunge the offending content. I don’t think they’re playing the long game at this point.

      Reply

18. Jenny says

    July 29, 2017 at 10:22 am

    Great review on the product!
    This product has helped my husband greatly!

    Reply

    • Joe says

      July 29, 2017 at 8:19 pm

      Thanks Jenny, I appreciate the feedback.

      Reply

19. claudia roulier says

    July 25, 2017 at 9:41 am

    to Me, no milk in milk thistle it is a plant derivative.

    Reply

20. Andre Dubois says

    July 18, 2017 at 4:21 pm

    Interesting and impartial article. I was recommended this product by a friend to try to reduce inflammation in my shoulder.

    I have found nothing to suggest that it reduces inflammation.

    Also, I am suspicious over the way that this is sold – smacks of a pyramid scheme.

    Most of the ingredients have an Ayurvedic background therefore will be of some benefit.

    In conclusion, I’ll not be trying this. I need more concrete evidence that it will “rejuvenate” without making an army of middle men rich! I am to make anyone rich, it will be me first 🙂

    Reply

    • Me says

      July 24, 2017 at 11:32 pm

      I agree with you! Why always a pyramid sellers? Why can’t we just buy this at GNC or any other store if it works so great? I also concerned if you allergic to Lastose/milk can you take milk thistle?

      Reply

      • Joe says

        July 25, 2017 at 8:01 am

        Hi Me, good question about milk thistle. Its actually a plant so it doesn’t come from milk (I know its weird since it contains “milk” in the name). Milk thistle has no lactose and has nothing to do with dairy products.

        Reply

      • DeeS says

        July 28, 2017 at 5:12 pm

        It used to be sold at GNC but nobody knew what it was or how it worked. Think about all those products! They went to direct marketing to educate people. It is not s pyramid scheme. Do your research. Go to YouTube! This product does what it says. 23 peer reviewed studies on s natural product! Unheard of.

        there are many doctors and veterinarians that are distributors…listen to their take. People so willingly take all these drugs with hundreds of side effects and font question it. But a natural product being said to be the biggest scientific breakthrough since the antibiotic and everyone questions it. I spent months researching and the science is there. Nrf2 is the key to our health.

        Reply

        • Joe says

          July 28, 2017 at 7:56 pm

          Dee, Most of those 23 studies are lab animal/ isolated cell studies. Did you see any human studies I missed in the review? If yes, let me know.

          Reply

          • Steve Jackson says

            October 13, 2017 at 12:03 pm

            Joe,

            Yes, there are 3 but only the runners study which shows that the Protandim runners had TWICE the levels of SOD as the placebo group is of any value. And even this one, the sample size is 38 runners… I do agree that more human studies are needed.

            But that said, I have had a VERY POSITIVE experience taking Protandim not once, but on two different occasions. I also know quite a few other that have had very positive results taking Protandim.

          • Joe says

            October 13, 2017 at 5:50 pm

            Hi Steve, thanks, Can you tell me the names or post links to the studies I missed. I’ll be glad to add them to the review.

          • Vogel says

            October 13, 2017 at 7:20 pm

            Steve Jackson said: “Yes, there are 3 but only the runners study which shows that the Protandim runners had TWICE the levels of SOD as the placebo group is of any value. And even this one, the sample size is 38 runners.”

            Except it didn’t show what you said it showed. The authors in fact reported the opposite:

            “There was no change in TBARS, SOD, or GPX (at rest) after three months of Protandim® supplementation compared to placebo.”
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/pdf/pone.0160559.pdf

            In other words it didn’t work – it failed, miserably, and for the third time. Not sure why you would misrepresent those results and then also dismiss the other two clinical studies as having no value. Not that any of these company-led studies are particularly reliable, but they all are equally persuasive in showing that the product fails to do anything.

            Steve Jackson said: “I do agree that more human studies are needed.”

            That suggestion is indefensible. In light of the 3 consecutive failed clinical trials, no further study is required. The only value the company sees in these studies is as marketing fodder, regardless of the fact that they all showed negative results. They simply ignore the results and instead crow about the names of the associated institutions because they think that alone will be impressive enough to sway rubes.

        • Vogel says

          July 28, 2017 at 9:36 pm

          DeeS said: “It used to be sold at GNC but nobody knew what it was or how it worked. Think about all those products! They went to direct marketing to educate people. It is not s pyramid scheme.”

          But it doesn’t work! Someone must have forgotten to tell you. The product has failed to do anything (except produce adverse events) in 3 consecutive RCT clinical trials. For all intents and purposes, it has now been conclusively proven to be ineffectual.

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

          The company issued a press release in 2005 announcing that they intended to sell it at GNC but I have never seen any evidence that it actually hit the store shelves. Regardless, the product failed despite the company pouring a pile of money into marketing and hiring a big name PR firm (which secured the ABC Primetime advertorial and other spots).

          https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000102189005000106/lifeline720058kex99.htm
          http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=6649189

          It failed as a retail product because it was blatant hokum and the marketplace was too savvy to waste money on it. The initial marketing story was pretty simple – a blend of 5 herbs that increases glutathione and SOD and acts as an antioxidant. Simple — but BS and not the least bit compelling.

          http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20050606005263/en/Lifeline-Therapeutics-Launches-Protandim-First-of-its-Kind-Antioxidant-Therapy

          It would have been relegated to the ash heap of history, had it not been for Lifeline Therapeutics (by then renamed LifeVantage) deciding in 2008. They hired David Brown, former CEO of the MLM Metabolife, to run the company as it transitioned to a pyramid scheme, and hired Chemins, former manufacturers of Metabolife 365, to produce Protandim – and they did so despite the fact that Metabolife 365 was linked to numerous deaths and both Metabolife and Chemins were linked to illegal methamphetamine manufacturing, tax evasion, undisclosed spiking of products with ephedra, hiding adverse event reports, and a host of other serious crimes that ended up landing the principals in prison. Hard to imagine a more sordid back story.

          http://www.newhope.com/news/lifevantage-corporation-appoints-industry-veteran-david-brown-president-ceo
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemins

          Joe McCord didn’t invent it (marketers Myhill and Driscoll did); it doesn’t have any antioxidant effect or increase SOD; it’s not free from adverse effects; it’s not a good value; people (most) won’t make money selling it; and it sure doesn’t cure, treat, or prevent anything.

          DeeS said: “Do your research. Go to YouTube! This product does what it says. 23 peer reviewed studies on s natural product! Unheard of.”

          Your admonition rings hollow. The fact that I have done exhaustive research is as painfully obvious as the fact that you have done virtually none. Again, there have been a total of 3 RCT clinical trials on the product to date and it has failed every time (except when it came to producing adverse effects).
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

          DeeS said: “there are many doctors and veterinarians that are distributors…listen to their take.”

          Like who? How many is “many”? What are their names?

          DeeS said: “People so willingly take all these drugs with hundreds of side effects and font question it.”

          I don’t know what a “font question” is but “people” (i.e., patients, physicians, researchers, hospitals, healthcare organizations, insurers/payers, Pharma companies, advocacy groups, etc.) pay a lot of attention to side effects and associated cost-benefit considerations. The same cannot be said, obviously, for ridiculous rinky-dink MLMs.

          And again, you seem to be unaware (sadly) that your product produces a host of adverse effects, like stomach ache, diarrhea, headache, nausea, dizziness, low blood sugar, and possibly depression. Unlike with drugs, which have actual therapeutic effects, there is no justification for anyone to endure the potential adverse effects of Protandim.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981460/

          DeeS said: “But a natural product being said to be the biggest scientific breakthrough since the antibiotic and everyone questions it. I spent months researching and the science is there. Nrf2 is the key to our health.”

          Everyone questions it in part because the people who promote it say such ridiculous things, like that it’s a breakthrough on par with the discovery of antibiotics. Such hyperbole will lead people to not only question the product but also the promoter’s sanity.

          I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that your “research” consisted solely of the company’s promotional materials; including their websites, rife with misleading claims, which just earned them the wrath of the FDA. If you spent months on your “research” while still somehow failing to uncover the most important sources then it’s fair to say that your time was truly wasted.
          https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcementactions/warningletters/2017/ucm554234.htm

          Reply

          • David says

            August 2, 2017 at 7:27 pm

            My family doctor–David Zoeller in Elizabethtown, KY–recommended Protandim in Dec 2016–he’s a runner as am I. We’re both in our early 60’s. The product worked for me, i.e., reduced post-run muscle pain significantly. I’ve used Protandim daily for over six months now and consider the $50 monthly expense well worth the benefit.

            Although Dr. McChord had incentive to lie and cheat, I trust his “science,” and his research. Have no idea why Protandim works for me and not for others–might work better for older folks–but after running for 50 years, the result for me is indisputable. My advice to other active seniors in the 60+ age group would be to try it for 60-90 days. I don’t have any financial interest in the company and am not a distributor. I buy my Protandim at Dr. Zoeller’s office.

          • Vogel says

            August 2, 2017 at 10:54 pm

            David said: “My family doctor–David Zoeller in Elizabethtown, KY–recommended Protandim in Dec 2016–he’s a runner as am I. We’re both in our early 60’s.”

            You omitted the fact that Zoeller is a Protandim distributor who is pitching the “opportunity (i.e., trying to recruit people for his downline). Maybe you didn’t know.
            http://bigbluecalendar.mhsoftware.com/ViewItem.html?cal_item_id=58645&integral=0&from_social=1&dtwhen=2456757

            David said: “The product worked for me, i.e., reduced post-run muscle pain significantly.”

            How would it possibly do that? Why would you think that a product with no demonstrated pain-relieving properties, and which is not advertised for pain relief, would relieve muscle pain? Happy accident? In light of the fact that 3 clinical trials have now shown that the product does pretty much nothing (except cause various adverse effects), you can see how implausible your claim is.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27513339
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28283797

            David said: “Although Dr. McChord (sic) had incentive to lie and cheat, I trust his “science,” and his research.”

            You’ll have to fill me in on that stunning leap of logic. He has incentive to lie and cheat, but what the heck, trust him anyway? Why? The company illegally markets the product as a medicinal agent, which has them in hot water with the FDA, and they had to recall 250,000 bottles because of metal contamination. They are hardly deserving of anyone’s trust, but I’ll chalk it up to naivety on your part.
            https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcementactions/warningletters/2017/ucm554234.htm
            http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Manufacturers/LifeVantage-recalls-product-over-metal-contamination

            As noted above, there have been 3 randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled controls on Protandim published to date – McCord (note the spelling) was an author on one of them — and all 3 showed that the product does nothing (except for causing adverse events). Since you “trust” the “science”, trust that. BTW, the phrase “trust the science” is a bit cringeworthy. You either know science and understand what you’re reading (like a scientist would, for instance) or you don’t. If you have to rely solely on trust, then it’s essentially worthless.

        • Shan says

          August 10, 2017 at 7:18 am

          Juice Plus is also a natural product and it has nearly 40 peer reviewed studies! They are out there. The best products are generally natural but people are quick to run to synthetics!

          Reply

          • Joe says

            August 10, 2017 at 9:04 am

            Shan, here’s the Juice Plus Review http://supplementclarity.com/juice-plus-review-of-research/

        • Salvador says

          August 14, 2017 at 1:26 pm

          I agree with you, protandim is the dreemed thing, by people, of all and different levels in the life, from the most intelligent, to the most ignorant, we have something in common, we want our bodies to feel healthy, but is thru the saying, not all the invited are worth.

          Reply

      • jb says

        July 30, 2017 at 12:28 pm

        because it is just a matter of where the profit goes, this is not a pyramid scheme , it is a way for the average person to be able to make some extra money, no matter where you buy it from someone is making money??? so what is your question again?????

        Reply

        • Vogel says

          July 30, 2017 at 8:23 pm

          jb said: “”because it is just a matter of where the profit goes, this is not a pyramid scheme , it is a way for the average person to be able to make some extra money, no matter where you buy it from someone is making money??? so what is your question again?????”

          Quite the contrary; it’s a way for the average person to NOT make money. That is proven by the company’s Distributor Compensation Summary.
          https://www.lifevantage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LifeVantage-Earnings-Claim-Statement-v03.pdf

          So what was that you were saying about not being a pyramid scheme?

          LifeVantage is currently under fire from the FDA for illegal marketing….
          https://www.rslsoapbox.com/2017/4/26/15436756/rsl-kit-sponsor-lifevantage-cancer-treatment-claims-fda-warning

          The stock has imploded to about 20% of its value about a year ago…

          …and this comes not long after they had to recall 250,000 bottles of product because of metal shard contamination (at a cost of up to $7 M).
          http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Manufacturers/LifeVantage-recalls-product-over-metal-contamination

          …and to top it off, the company is facing a class action lawsuit for — wait for it — being a pyramid scheme.
          https://www.sommerspc.com/blog/2016/11/distributors-claim-lifevantage-running-illegal-pyramid-scheme/

          Might want to take a mulligan on your last comment.

          Reply

          • sad says says

            August 4, 2017 at 10:48 am

            vogel you may have missed the fact that the author of the article above about the class action lawsuit is written by the attorney bringing the class action. you are an amazing writer.

          • Vogel says

            August 4, 2017 at 1:23 pm

            Sad said: “vogel you may have missed the fact that the author of the article above about the class action lawsuit is written by the attorney bringing the class action. you are an amazing writer.”

            I thank you for the compliment but I must point out that (a) I didn’t miss anything at all; and (b) you seem to not understand how class action lawsuits work. In fact, it was not an “article” per se but rather an announcement from the law firm of Sommers Schwartz, P.C. seeking litigants to join in the class action.

            The suit was not filed by Sommers Schwartz; they are merely one of many law firms that participated in the action: e.g., Ryan & Maniskas, Rosen Law, Khang & Khang, Lundin Law, Goldberg Law, Pomerantz LLP, etc.

            http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ryan–maniskas-llp-announces-class-action-lawsuit-against-lifevantage-corporation-300329571.html

            http://www.rosenlegal.com/cases-952.html

            http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160916005871/en/IMPORTANT-SHAREHOLDER-ALERT-Khang-Khang-LLP-Announces

            https://finance.yahoo.com/news/equity-alert-lundin-law-pc-213700493.html

            http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160914006038/en/INVESTOR-ALERT-Goldberg-Law-PC-Announces-Investigation

            http://pomerantzlawfirm.com/news/

      • Chase says

        August 20, 2017 at 4:42 pm

        This product was introduced at GNC until a synthetic brand came out for half the price with the same claim. That is when the company decided to go with direct marketing. If you want to see a pyramid scheme just go to a regular job the boss/ceo is the one making all the money based on what the average Joe at the bottom does

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        • Joe says

          August 21, 2017 at 9:01 am

          Chase, what was the name of the synthetic brand of protandim? While I’m sure some might try to make knock off brands, I’ve not heard of a specific knock off brand was popular like that.

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