(Updated 7/17/20). Have you heard of the anti-aging supplement Protandim? Maybe you saw a YouTube video of when Protandim was featured on ABC's PrimeTime? Protandim called an “Nrf2 activator” has been said to be the “only supplement clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress in humans by an average of 40 percent in 30 days.” That’s fancy talk for Protandim is a type of antioxidant supplement. Unlike other products, Protandim is said to work by helping the body increase its own natural antioxidant enzymes. Sounds good, but does Protandim work, or is it a scam? These are some of the questions I will address in this review. The good news is there are clinical studies on Protandim. I will use that research in this review and help you understand it. By the end of this review, you'll have a better idea if Protandim is right for you.
Other Anti-Aging Supplement Reviews
What Is Protandim?
Protandim might sound like a drug but it's really a dietary supplement. It's said to combat free radical damage (oxidative stress) by stimulating the production of the body's own natural antioxidant enzymes such as catalase, superoxide dismutase (SOD), and glutathione.
The idea goes like this: instead of taking individual antioxidant supplements (like vitamins C, E, etc.) in the hopes they will battle free radicals and combat aging and disease, Protandim is supposed to augment or ramp up your own naturally occurring free radical defenses.
It's a novel concept to be sure.
The supplement website (LifeVantage.com) says the supplement is “clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress to levels of that of a 20-year-old.” Oxidative stress refers to the stress (cellular damage) caused by free radicals.
What Does The Name Mean?
My guess is the name was chosen because the ingredients are supposed to “pro-actively” work in “tandim” to help defend us against aging and disease.
Who Makes Protandim?
Protandim is a product of a company called LifeVantage Corporation. LifeVantage is actually a publicly traded stock on the NASDAQ. Its stock symbol is LFVN.
The company is located at 9785 S. Monroe Street, Suite 300 Sandy, UT 84070. If you google this address you will see a building with “LifeVantage” at the top. That is good. It tells us the company has a physical location.
Contact LifeVantage
Call the company at 866-460-7241.
The Better Business Bureau gave LifeVantage an A- rating when this review was updated. See the BBB file for updates and more information.
Protandim Ingredients
According to the product's website, there are 5 ingredients in each caplet of Protandim which add up to 625 mg:
| Amount Per Serving (1 caplet) | Percent Daily Value |
|---|---|
| Calcium (as dicalcum phosphate & calcium carbonate) 77 mg | 8% DV |
| Proprietary Blend Consisting of the following | 675 mg |
| Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) seed. | |
| Bacopa extract (Bacopa monnieri) whole herb | |
| Ashwagandha extract (Withania somnifera) root | |
| Green tea extract (Camellia sinensis) leaf | |
| Turmeric extract (Curcuma longa) rhizome |
Notice in the table above they tell us the source of each ingredient:
- The milk thistle extract is derived from the seeds of the plant
- The bacopa extract is derived from the whole plant
- The ashwagandha extract is derived from the root of the plant
- The green tea extract comes from the leaves of the plant
- The turmeric extract is derived from the underground stems (rhizome) of the plant
Other Ingredients
The supplement label also tells the supplement has these other ingredients:
- Microcrystalline Cellulose
- Croscarmellose Sodium Silica
- Modified Cellulose
- Stearic Acid
- Magnesium Stearate
- Maltodextrin
- Medium Chain Triglycerides
These other ingredients play no role in the effects or benefits of the product. They make up the caplets and/or help with the delivery of the ingredients into the body.
I want to commend the LifeVantage company for sponsoring much of the research below. It's rare to find a product with so many clinical studies.
Protandim Research
Protandim is different from a lot of supplements because there really is clinical research on this product. Below is a summary of the Protandim research with links to the studies for those who want to see them for themselves.
Because scientific studies can be wordy and complicated for most people, I will summarize the study and put the research in the proper context to make it easier to understand.
2016 Protandim Research
Study
The Effect of Protandim® Supplementation on Athletic Performance and Oxidative Blood Markers in Runners.
Study summary: In this investigation, researchers tested if taking Protandim (675 mg/day) for 90 days would improve 5K running performance and reduce TBARS. The study involved 38 runners who were randomly given either Protandim or a placebo.
Results: After 90 days, those taking Protandim (1x/day) showed no improvement in running performance compared to those taking the placebo. In addition, Protandim did not reduce TBARS or alter levels of antioxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase (SOD) or glutathione peroxidase (GPX) during resting periods. The researchers report however that in those over age 35, Protandim improved SOD twice as much as those taking the placebo.
See the full review of this study
Study
Longer lifespan in male mice treated with a weakly estrogenic agonist, an antioxidant, an α-glucosidase inhibitor or an Nrf2-inducer.
Study summary: Here, researchers sought to determine what effect various compounds had on extending the life of mice. Protandim was one of the compounds tested. The other compounds tested in the study were fish oil, ursodeoxycholic acid (a bile acid, used to dissolve gall stones), and the diabetes drug, metformin. Different mice received the different compounds for their entire lifespan.
Beginning at 10 months of age, mice received Protandim at a dosage of 600 parts per million (ppm) in their food. This amount was chosen because it was similar to the Protandim dosage used by people. When the mice were 17 months old, the dosage was increased to 1200 ppm because this was thought to be better.
Study results: researchers noted male mice getting Protandim had a 7% increase in average lifespan. The supplement did not lengthen the life span of female mice. The researchers also point out that while the average lifespan was increased, the maximum lifespan did not increase. Regardless, this was a mouse study.
2013 Protandim Research
Study
Study
Upregulation of phase II enzymes through phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects cardiomyocytes against oxidant stress
Study results: Researchers noted that mouse heart cells treated with Protandim increased the production of an antioxidant/anti-inflammatory enzyme called Heme oxygenase 1 (HO-1) as well as Nrf2. This was a test-tube study using isolated mouse heart cells.
This investigation is derived from a Masters's Thesis in 2010. The title of the MS Thesis is “UPREGULATION OF HEME OXYGENASE-1 AND ACTIVATION OF NRF2 BY THE PHYTOCHEMICALS IN PROTANDIM .” It is not unusual for a quality MS thesis or other graduate work to go through the peer-review process and be published.
2012 Protandim Research
Study
Antioxidants for the Treatment of Patients with Severe Angioproliferative Pulmonary Hypertension? Published in the journal, Antioxidants in Redox Signaling.
Summary: This is a rat study. Protandim increased antioxidant enzymes in rats, protecting the hearts from damage.
Study
Phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects human coronary artery endothelial cells against an oxidative challenge published in the journal, Oxidative Medicine and Cellular Longevity.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Human coronary (heart) artery cells were treated with Protandim (20 micrograms per milliliter) or placebo (ethanol). All cells were then treated with hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to induce free radical damage. Cells treated with Protandim showed less cell death than those getting the placebo.
Study
Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders.
Summary: This investigation showed the supplement did not work. To be fair, this was a strange study. Researchers looked at 30 alcoholics . The researchers stuck tubes down the throats of the subjects to take fluid samples from their lungs. They randomly gave the people 1350 mg of Protandim per day or a placebo, for a week. They tested for various things to see if Protandim helped the people. It didn’t.
I don't know how relevant this study is to whether Protandim works or not. I mentioned it because it was a human study. For a much more in-depth review of this study—written by a doctor—see the review posted on ScienceBasedMedicine.org.
2011 Protandim Research
Study
Oxidative stress in health and disease: the therapeutic potential of Nrf2 activation.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Essentially, Protandim altered cellular pathways involved in antioxidant enzyme production and colon cancer, cardiovascular disease (heart disease), and Alzheimer's disease. This is encouraging, but, humans are more complicated than isolated cells. This study doesn’t prove the supplement reduces the risk of any of these diseases.
Study
The role of manganese superoxide dismutase in skin cancer.
Summary: This is a mouse study. Here, researchers reported the supplement reduced tumor growth in mice. For the most part, this appears to be a review of previous research relating free radical damage to the development of skin cancer.
Study
Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.
Summary. This is a test tube study. Basically, a blood vessel was bathed in Protandim. Researchers noted the supplement reduced the thickening of vein cells.
2010 Protandim Research
Study
The Dietary Supplement Protandim Decreases Plasma Osteopontin and Improves Markers of Oxidative Stress in Muscular Dystrophy Mdx Mice.
Summary. This is a mouse study. Mice were genetically created to have muscular dystrophy. They were given Protandim at a dosage similar to what is recommended for humans. After 6 months, the mice given Protandim showed a 46%reduction in the free radical breakdown of fat (TBARS). TBARS stand for ThiobarBituric Acid Reactive Substances.
The greater the TBAR level, the greater free radical damage. Thus, reducing TBARS is taken to be a good thing. This doesn't prove Protandim helps muscular dystrophy. People with muscular dystrophy should discuss this with their doctor for greater insights.
Study
The chemopreventive effects of Protandim: modulation of p53 mitochondrial translocation and apoptosis during skin carcinogenesis.
Summary: This is a mouse study. Protandim reduced damage to the mitochondria of mouse cells. of this study. The mitochondria, often called the “powerhouse” of the cell, make energy —and makes free radicals in the process. The mitochondria are a major area of anti-aging research.
Study
Chronic pulmonary artery pressure elevation is insufficient to explain right heart failure.
Summary. This is a rat study. Researchers tested if the supplement helped pulmonary blood pressure. After 6 weeks, Protandim did not reduce pulmonary artery blood pressure or the number of lung lesions. These researchers did say “our data point to a cardioprotective effect of Protandim.” But, this is a vague statement.
2009 Protandim Research
Study
Protandim, a fundamentally new antioxidant approach in chemoprevention using mouse two-stage skin carcinogenesis as a model.
Summary: This is a mouse study.
Study
Synergistic induction of heme oxygenase-1 by the components of the antioxidant supplement Protandim.
Summary: This is a test tube study. Cells treated with supplements showed significant increases in glutathione, an antioxidant compound. This is the study LifeVantage lists as “proof” Protandim increases glutathione levels by 300%. It may raise glutathione 300% – in a test tube – but does the same effect occur in people?
2006 Protandim Research
Study
The induction of human superoxide dismutase and catalase in vivo: a fundamentally new approach to antioxidant therapy.
This is a human study. 39 healthy men and women, age 20-78 years were given Protandim (675 mg per day) between 30 and 120 days.
Study Summary:
1. Protandim caused a significant increase in the antioxidant superoxide dismutase (SOD) in red blood cells.
2. TBARS declined by 40% after 30 days
3. SOD in red blood cells increased by 30% after 120 days
4. Catalase decreased by 40% after 120 days
5. There was a non-significant rise (4.9%) in uric acid.
6. No change in CRP levels was seen.
7. No change in HDL, LDL or triglycerides were seen.
Protandim Research Summary
Here is a quick summary of the research:
| Study Year / Title | Study Type (Human, mouse, etc.) |
| 2016 Research | |
| The Effect of Protandim Supplementation on Athletic Performance and Oxidative Blood Markers in Runners | Humans |
| Longer lifespan in male mice treated with a weakly estrogenic agonist, an antioxidant, an α-glucosidase inhibitor or a Nrf2-inducer | mice |
| 2013 Research | |
| Upregulation of phase II enzymes through phytochemical activation of Nrf2 protects cardiomyocytes against oxidant stress | Mouse heart cells |
| 2012 Research | |
| Antioxidants for the treatment of patients with severe angioproliferative pulmonary hypertension? | Rats |
| Phytochemical Activation of Nrf2 Protects Human Coronary Artery Endothelial Cells against an Oxidative Challenge | Test tube study |
| Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders. | Humans |
| 2011 Research | |
| Oxidative stress in health and disease: the therapeutic potential of Nrf2 activation. | Test tube study |
| The Role of Manganese Superoxide Dismutase in Skin Cancer | Mice |
| Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway | Test tube study |
| 2010 Research | |
| The Dietary Supplement Protandim® Decreases Plasma Osteopontin and Improves Markers of Oxidative Stress in Muscular Dystrophy Mdx Mice | Mice |
| The Chemopreventive Effects of Protandim: Modulation of p53 Mitochondrial Translocation and Apoptosis during Skin Carcinogenesis | Mice |
| Chronic Pulmonary Artery Pressure Elevation Is Insufficient to Explain Right Heart Failure | Rats |
| 2009 Research | |
| Protandim, a Fundamentally New Antioxidant Approach in Chemoprevention Using Mouse Two-Stage Skin Carcinogenesis as a Model | Mice |
| Synergistic induction of heme oxygenase-1 by the components of the antioxidant supplement Protandim. | Test tube study |
| 2006 Research | |
| The induction of human superoxide dismutase and catalase in vivo: a fundamentally new approach to antioxidant therapy. | Humans |
To be fair, it's possible I may have missed some research. I'll update this table as I become aware of new research.
My Thoughts On The Research
While Protandim has been the subject of several clinical investigations, only 3 of them involved humans. They are:
- The 2006 study (click to see study)
- The 2012 study (click to see study)
- The 2016 study (click to see the study)
Protandim And Weight Loss
Can Protaindm help you lose weight? There is no good evidence for this. None of the above clinical investigations was about weight loss. To the credit of LifeVangage, they do not market this supplement for weight reduction.
Protandim And Multiple Sclerosis
Is this supplement worthwhile if you have Multiple sclerosis (MS)? Some have put forth the idea that disruption of free radical stress – via stabilizing Nrf2 (the stuff this supplement is supposed to improve) – might help MS. So, is there any proof? There was an investigation presented in 2011 at the 5th Joint triennial congress of the European and Americas Committees for Treatment and Research in Multiple Sclerosis Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
The title of the presentation was: Nrf2 activators: a novel strategy to promote oligodendrocyte survival in multiple sclerosis? Here, researchers treated rat and human oligodendrocytes with several compounds ― one of which was Protandim ― and then exposed the cells to a chemical to create free radical damage.
These researchers noted Protandim was seen as “the most potent inducer” of Nrf2 antioxidant enzymes defenses. In other words, Protandim helped the most.
This is intriguing, but it's not the same as giving it to people with MS to see if their symptoms improved.
There is also some evidence that stimulating Nrf2 might reduce cellular inflammation via inhibition of NFkb. Inhibition of NFkb is also something another supplement – called Anatabloc – was supposed to do. Currently, though there is little human proof for Protandim improving quality of life in those with MS.
See the Anatabloc review.
Protandim And ABC Primetime
In 2005, this supplement was featured on ABC's Primetime news show. In this segment, ABC correspondent John Quinones met with Dr. Joe McCord, a respected researcher whose name appears on many of the Protandim clinical studies. According to his Wikipedia page, as a grad student, Dr. McCord was involved with the discovery of Superoxide Dismutase, an important free radical savaging enzyme. Here is the ABC Primetime segment :
Basically, John Quinones gets a blood test to measure his TBAR level (an indicator of oxidative stress). He's given Protandim for 2 weeks and then returns to the lab where he has his blood tested again.
Dr. McCord tells John Quinones the supplement caused a “45% reduction” in oxidative stress and goes on to say this is the level seen in a “newborn baby”. The ABC Primetime segment is often used as proof the supplement really works. But, as I see it, one problem is John Quinones doesn't have is blood tested by an independent lab. This is bad science in my opinion.
Of course, the Primetime segment is interesting. But it's been over a decade since this segment aired. You'd think such an impressive result would warrant a follow-up. I wish Primetime and John Quinones would do a follow-up story.
Update. Dr. McCord is now involved with the PB125 supplement.
Protandim And The FDA
In 2017, the FDA reached out to LifeVantage to inform them they considered Protandim to be a drug and not a supplement based on claims made about it as an NRF2 Synergizer. Basically, the FDA was saying the claims being made at the time, made people think the supplement could treat disease. This is something not allowed under US supplement regulation. This may be the reason for the dramatic change in the LifeVantage website and marketing. There are no more claims about the effects of the supplement. Instead, the company now calls itself “a wellness and personal care company” and makes references to “bio-hacking.”
Do Doctors Endorse Protandim?
While the supplement is not endorsed by the American Medical Association (they don't endorse any supplement), I'm sure some physicians believe in it – and others who don't.
Does Protandim Have Caffeine?
According to the product website, each tablet has 1.8mg of caffeine. That's much less than in a cup of coffee and most energy drinks. I don't think this small amount would keep people up at night, but because we are all different it might be wise to not take it close to bedtime.
Is It Kosher?
No. this supplement is not kosher or organic. It is however made in the US. That is good.
Protandim Side Effects
Are there any Protandim dangers out there? I don't think so. I believe this supplement is pretty safe. I am not aware of any side effects. That said, here are a few general things you might want to think about if your not healthy. This list is not complete:
- Start with less than the recommended dosage for the first week to see how you respond
- Speak to your doctor/ pharmacist if you are pregnant or breastfeeding
- Stop taking the supplement at least 2 weeks before having surgery
- Speak to your doctor /pharmacist if you take any prescription drugs like blood thinners
One study noted the supplement might raise uric acid levels (by 4.9%). Would this be bad for those who suffer from gout? Currently, there is no direct proof gout pain is increased by Protandim. See the review of Tart Cherry Juice for more info.
While allergic reactions are likely uncommon, LifeVantage does mention this possibility in some people. Specific symptoms mentioned on the LifeVantage website include:
- gastrointestinal disturbances (i.e., stomach ache, diarrhea, vomiting)
- sometimes as a headache or rash on the hands or feet
Stop taking the supplement if you experience these symptoms.
The company website warns against using the supplement if you are undergoing chemotherapy or radiation therapy for cancer. This is likely because of the unknowns of combining antioxidants with some cancer therapies. If you have cancer or are getting treatment for it, ask your doctor. I'm glad the LifeVantage company informs people about this.
LifeVantage also stresses the importance of talking to a doctor if you have any autoimmune disease like arthritis or Type I diabetes. I'm not aware of any problems in anyone but I appreciated the company mentioning this.
How To Measure Your TBARS
Remember TBARS are a measure of free radical damage (oxidative stress) of cells. Protandim is said to reduce TBARS. The TBAR test is also called a Lipid Peroxidase test. Ask your physician about this test. For those who really want to know if Protandim is working, getting this test done first—and a month later— might be a good idea. I'm not sure if insurance covers the test or not. Talk to your doctor for more information on this.
Aged Garlic Extract also has some evidence it might reduce TBARS (click to see review)
TrueScience Brand
True Science is a brand name under which various beauty products made by the company can be identified. Products offered under the True Science brand include:
- Shampoo
- Scalp serum
- Facial cleanser
- Eye serum
What is PhysIQ?
PhysIQ is the brand name associated with various fitness-related products. This brand includes:
- Fat burn supplements
- Prebiotics
- Whey protein
- Appetite suppressants
Protandim For Dogs
Protandim Dogs (formally called Canine Health) is for pets. According to the LifeVantage website, this supplement contains 150 mg of the same ingredients as Protandim – as well as omega 3 fatty acids and collagen. The website goes on to say: “Reducing oxidative stress in dogs may reduce many of the disorders associated with aging in canine.” To support this, the organization states a 3rd party animal health company has found the supplement reduces oxidative stress in dogs.
Protandim vs. PB125
PB125, by Pathways Bioscience, is another supplement whose makers claim can reduce TBARS and activate NrF2. PB125 is the supplement by Dr. Joe McCord and associates. Recall Dr. McCord used to be associated with the LifeVantage company.
While PB125 is said to be the next generation of NrF2 activators, no studies have yet compared these supplements to each other to see which is better. The ingredients in both products are different for the most part.
See the PB125 Review for much more information.
Protandim vs. Tru Niagen
The Tru Niagen supplement boasts research showing it can raise NAD+ levels in humans. Tru Niagen is based on nicotniamide riboside a form of niacin (vitamin B3).
The idea of slowing aging by raising NAD+ is different than Protandim. So far no clinical studies have compared these supplements to each other. While the original Protandim does not contain nicotinamide riboside, the Life Vantage company does offer another version called the “NAD Synergizer” which contains niacin.
Protandim vs. Elysium Basis
Basis by Elysium is a popular anti-aging supplement that contains very different ingredients than Protandim. Like Tru Niagen, Elysium Basis also is an NAD+ booster supplement. So, which is better? Unfortunately, there are no head-to-head studies yet.
See the Elysuim Basis Review for more insights.
Protandim vs. SeroVital
You've probably seen TV ads for SeroVital. How does Protandim compare to SeroVital? Both supplements contain different ingredients and are touted to work differently.
While Protandim is said to help boost our bodies antioxidant enzymes, SeroVital is marketed to raise human growth hormone (HGH).
If we just look at the research, Protandim wins hands down. The makers of Serovital only have one study.
Where To Buy Protandim
This supplement is not sold in stores like Walmart, Target, Cosco, CVS, Walgreens, Kmart, or BJs. It's also not sold at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. Rather, it's mostly purchased from LifeVantage independent distributors.
It is also available online as well although when using a distributor, you may get the individualized attention you might not get by buying it yourself.
Protandim Price
According to the LifeVantage website, a one-month supply (30 capsules) costs $59.99 retail. If you order it through a LifeVantage distributor, it costs $49.99 – and that is on a monthly basis. In other words, that means auto-shipments. If you want to purchase one month only to test drive it first, speak to your LifeVantgage independent distributor.
Protandim Yearly Cost
Let's round the price up to $50 a month. In one year, the supplement would cost you $600. Shipping and tax may be extra. If you only want to order 1 bottle to try yourself, you can get it on Amazon too.
My Suggestions
If you can afford it, go ahead and give it a try for a month or so and see if you feel any better. If you really want to know for sure, get your TBARS measured first.
Remember, exercise will also reduce TBARS too.
Protandim Pro & Con
Here's a quick summary of what I liked and didn't like. These are my opinions. Yours may be different.
| Pro | Con |
|---|---|
| There are clinical studies on Protandim | Not all the studies are on humans |
| Company has been around a long time | Not available in stores |
| Company sponsors research on Protandim | Expensive |
| Lots of hype about benefits |
Does Protandim Work?
While I'm intrigued at the prospect of slowing down aging, I'm can't say for sure if Protandim works or not. The research is intriguing but in my opinion three's not enough human research yet to draw conclusions. So, does Protandim really work? Let's just say I'm looking forward to more human clinical studies.
Here is it is on Amazon If you want to check it out/see what others are saying
Btw, as far as Protandim. The ingredients in protandim have helped my dad with his diabetes and cholesterol! So does protandim work? maybe! But you can get the same ingredients from other cheaper sources and they will work the same.
The best medicine is having a healthier diet and a more active lifestyle! Boom! I bet if companies promote eating healthy and exercise most big Pharmaceutical and supplement companies would go out of business! Supplements only work if A, you’re eating healthy and B, adding a resistance and cardiovascular regimen to your lifestyle. 🙂
the only MLM I would join is if that MLM company sold anabolic steroids as a product! 🙂 that would be amazing! haha
Anthony said: ‘The ingredients in protandim have helped my dad with his diabetes and cholesterol!”
No, you are surely mistaken. There’s no plausible reason why Protandim would have such effects and there’s never been a single documented case like that; it’s safe to say that we’d all know about it by now if Protandim could actually alleviate diabetes and lower cholesterol levels.
Anthony said: ‘So does protandim work? maybe!
No. It doesn’t. Clinical trial data proves it.
Anthony said: ‘But you can get the same ingredients from other cheaper sources and they will work the same.
You mean “not work” the same; yes, it’s true.
Anthony said: ‘I bet if companies promote eating healthy and exercise most big Pharmaceutical and supplement companies would go out of business!
That’s a very odd thing to say. There are lot of companies that promote healthy eating and exercise. People still get sick and pharmaceutical companies are still in business. Unfortunately, so are many of the supplement companies that sell useless overhyped products – MLMs being among the worst of the lot.
Anthony said: “the only MLM I would join is if that MLM company sold anabolic steroids as a product! 🙂 that would be amazing! Haha”
Yah, ha, ha, that’s funny. I wish you were kidding but, sadly, I don’t think you are.
It was a joke! Haha. Im actually anti protandim. I wasnt talking about protandim.. I was talking about some of the ingredients found in it. Like turmeric. But again, these are his claims.. It could just be his healthy lifestyle modification. But he says ever since taking turmeric he has gotten off all his medications and has no more metabolic problems. Again, it could be because he eats more fruits and veggies and less saturated fats.
Hey vogel, what do you say to these claims people say that Protandim has healed them of their specific disease.. You think it’s a placebo effect? What’s your take?
Anthony said: “It could just be his healthy lifestyle modification. But he says ever since taking turmeric he has gotten off all his medications and has no more metabolic problems. Again, it could be because he eats more fruits and veggies and less saturated fats.”
Almost certainly the latter is true. Occam’s razor!
Anthony said: “Hey vogel, what do you say to these claims people say that Protandim has healed them of their specific disease.. You think it’s a placebo effect? What’s your take?”
Great question. The claims fall into 2 buckets: (1) those who, under the influence of deceptive advertising and group peer pressure, mistakenly assume that some improvement in health was attributable to Protandim when in fact it wasn’t (i.e., confusing correlation with causality and failing to recognize the placebo effect); and (2) those who are purposely lying. It’s hard to say with any accuracy how many of the claims fall into bucket 1 versus 2, but I would guess that the latter accounts for the vast majority of claims. It’s a hallmark of snakekoil MLMs.
Bear in mind also that we can’t even make an educated guess as to how many of these claims there really are. It could well be half a dozen people associated with LFVN who are responsible for the vast majority of such claims. It should also be recognized that virtually all of the claims are anonymous and sorely lacking in critical details. That doesn’t seem at all coincidental – it seems to be a tacit admission that the claims are illegal and those making them are trying to avoid culpability. You can be sure that if I took a supplement that I thought alleviated cancer, I would be screaming about it from the rooftops, proudly signing my name to my testimonial, and referring people to my doctor (by name) so that they can verify the facts for themselves. Notice that this virtually never happens with any of the Protandim claims.
Regardless of whether the claimants are confusing correlation with causality, experiencing a placebo effect, or they are purposely lying, the claims are quite clearly illegal — and those that making the claims are breaking the law, regardless of whether or not they believe that what they are claiming is truthful.
Supplement Geek, I thought you might find this helpful. It’s a webinar by Dr. Dan Murphy, he’s one of the top 3 chiropractic researchers in the world, and his specialty is analyzing peer reviewed research. He has no monetary ties to Protandim, and seems to give them a very thorough review, looking at it from all angles.
Jon C, I looked him up and saw his you-tube video on protandim. I also found him mentioned on the webpages of many protandim distributors too. While I didn’t watch the whole video (its about 30 min long) I did notice that Dr Murphy almost immediately points people to pubmed to see the proof for protandim – just like protandim distributors do.
While hes a very intelligent person, Dr Murphy can’t refute my findings. Pubmed or not, the majority of protandim research is still test tube and lab animal studies.
Dr. Murphy may be a great teacher and chiropractor but as I see it, the very studies used to promote Protanidm are its greatest weakness.
Not so sure about the claim of Dr. Murphy having no financial ties to the company. It doesn’t make sense for someone to endorse a product and do webinars for free. This website indicates that Dr. Murphy is part of the company:
homebizblogs.com/2011/08/dr-dan-murphy-d-c-endorses-protandim/
In any case, Joe is spot on……no matter what Dr. Murphy says, you can’t talk your way around the lack of relevant human studies.
Lisa, thanks for that website. As it happens, I got curious and called Dr Murphy at the # on his website. The person I spoke to told they have no financial connection to Protandim.
They lied.
Jon said: “Dr. Dan Murphy, he’s one of the top 3 chiropractic researchers in the world,”
That’s like praising someone for being the best 3-foot tall basketball player in Peoria.
Just out of curiosity, where is that list of top chiropractic researchers that he’s on? Don’t waste your time trying to lie your way out of that question, because we both know that no such list exists, and if it did, he wouldn’t be on it.
He even admits that he’s not a real researcher — on this video he says flat out: “I am not a primary researcher; I am what they call a literature searcher.” [00:30]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFWP5kn1kx0&feature=related
A hack who likes to read in not what passes for a “researcher” in the real world, but it’s a good enough fairy tale for LifeVantage to pass on to the rubes isn’t it?
I actually took Protandim faithfully for approximately 20 months and found that it helped me focus. That is the only positive that I noticed but always at the back of my mind was the possibility that it was doing more on a cellular level. I haven’t been very faithful lately in taking it and plan to start again. I also researched it in the beginning and still do from time to time. It was not easy to get people to buy it, I will say that! I also noticed their stock is trading low lately.
In that Protandim reduces Oxidative Stress, it should be seen as more of a preventive maintenance product than a feel-good pill. Getting people to take it is not easy, because it deals with a problem most people don’t know they have.
Well, no Greg, it shouldn’t be seen as a “preventive maintenance product”. In fact, there is no evidence that it prevents anything, and that particular claim is expressly prohibited under U.S law; hence the company’s use of the standard disclaimer that the product is not intended to prevent, treat, cure, or mitigate the symptoms of any disease.
Aside from that, Protandim doesn’t even reliably reduce oxidative stress, as indicated by the results of the last clinical trial in which the product was shown to be essentially inert and got bested by a placebo.
Your constant repeating of the same old nonsense is getting old. Yes, we can say Protandim is like preventive maintenance, because we are not claiming it prevents any particular disease. It is preventive maintenance in the same way regular oil changes are preventive maintenance for your car; doing so does not guarantee that your car won’t break down, but it makes it less likely. Would you kindly tell us where you got your law degree? With what firm are you practicing?
As for reducing Oxidative Stress, do you realize that we have FDA approval to make that very claim? we can’t, and don’t, say it treats or cures any particular diseases, but we have a dozen studies that say Protandim does lower OS, and just one incomplete study that says not. Don’t come back with the old saw about those other studies not being valid–if they weren’t valid they would not have passed the peer-review process and been published in medical journals.
Animal and test-tube studies are relevant, because they frequently produce results similar to what later human clinic studies produce, and are thus a good indicator to researchers that they are on the right track. If such studies were never worth doing, why have so many been performed over the years? Are you saying that thousands of scientists, who know a whole lot more about medical research than you do, were just wasting their time, effort, and money?
Since Oxidative Stress has been found to be a major biochemical factor in the aging process, it is logical to think that lowering it could quite possibly delay the onset of aging. No guarantees, of course, since everybody is different, but your odds are a lot better with lower OS than with higher.
Greg if test tube and lab animal research is relevant, as you say, then why dont protandim distributors tell people that the nature of the studies? Ive never head any say this. Why dont they if its relevant? They just say go to pubmed.
I’m not aware that any distributors deny the nature of the studies, but most of us are not scientists, and are thus unable to explain the details, so we refer interested persons to the studies themselves. I don’t see where this is in any way objectionable.
We are not trying to hide anything. Certainly when Dr McCord explains them at large meetings he is very clear about how the tests were conducted, and the results learned. Incidentally, how many Protandim presentations or meetings have you actually attended?
Greg, if most protandim distributors are not scientists and dont understand the science, why do they send people -most of whom are also not scientists either – to pubmed to see the research that they also probably wouldn’t understand?
I have never attended a Protandim meeting. Why would I have to since Ive seen all the studies?
Greg B – you say this “we can’t, and don’t, say it treats or cures any particular diseases”. Who, exactly, is “we”? Because plenty of distributors DO make those claims.
And LifeVantage winks, and lets it continue. They claim not to have control over their distributors. THIS is why I do not trust MLM marketing. They take advantage of people who assume that the distributor (often a friend) is telling the truth.
Greg B said: “Yes, we can say Protandim is like preventive maintenance, because we are not claiming it prevents any particular disease.”
In other words, you can’t actually say with any certainty that Protandim prevents anything.
Greg B said “It is preventive maintenance in the same way regular oil changes are preventive maintenance for your car; doing so does not guarantee that your car won’t break down, but it makes it less likely.”
Terrible analogy! Oil is not preventative maintenance; it is essential. A car can’t run without oil; it’s not optional. Protandim, on the other hand, is essential for nothing. Using your pathetic analogy, it’s akin to one of those fraudulent fuel additives that is claimed to increase gas mileage but actually does nothing but lighten people wallets.
Greg B said “Would you kindly tell us where you got your law degree? With what firm are you practicing?
Another throwaway comment. One doesn’t need a law degree; one only needs to look at two things: (1) the advertising claims (2) the laws that govern what can and cannot be said about dietary supplements. Notice how I haven’t asked for you law degree, or your MD degree, because it’s not germane to the discussion (and because it’s already painfully obvious that you have neither — I would be more inclined to ask if you passed grade 8).
Greg B said “As for reducing Oxidative Stress, do you realize that we have FDA approval to make that very claim?
No. You don’t have FDA approval to make that claim or any other claim about Protandim. It’s a mystery how you could ever come to be so incredibly misinformed. You seem to understand nothing about the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act.
Greg B said “…we have a dozen studies that say Protandim does lower OS, and just one incomplete study that says not.”
Your test tube studies (of which there were not 12 showing a reduction in oxidative stress – that’s false claim #1) are superseded by clinical trials. The only properly designed clinical trial on Protandim showed that it had no antioxidant effect. What’s left to argue about? The data show that Protandim lowers oxidative stress in a test tube but not in people. You’re trying to sell your product to people, not test tubes.
Greg B:
Since you either don’t follow links which are posted, or you simply choose to ignore what they say, I’m posting this from Pubmed. You trust Pubmed, right? Here is what they say about the evaluation of research:
——————————————————–
“About Clinical Effectiveness Research
Clinical effectiveness research finds answers to the question “What works?” in medical and health care.
“Working” is a real health benefit – like symptom relief, quicker recovery, or longer life. To find out if something really works, all important effects need to be studied. That means possible harms as well as possible benefits.
Clinical or health effects are sometimes called patient-relevant outcomes.
How do researchers get from an idea to proof of clinical effectiveness?
Ideas about what could work might come from laboratory tests. There might be animal testing. Studies observing patients also generate important knowledge and theories.
But all these types of research cannot provide definite proof that a particular treatment works. Many other factors could be having an impact at the same time as treatment. People often improve with or without treatment, too.
Putting ideas, theories, and beliefs to the test
Testing clinical effectiveness in people requires experiments that can single out the true effects of specific actions. That is why the possible effects of treatments and prevention methods need to be studied in clinical trials.
One trial is rarely enough to provide definite answers. Later trials sometimes confirm early results—and sometimes come up with conflicting results. So researchers search for, and then analyze, all the trials that have studied particular questions. This type of research is called a systematic review.”
—————————————————————-
This is why LV’s lab tests don’t amount to much…..no matter what you say, or how many times you say it. If you continue to say it, then the only conclusions which can be made are that you have a very low IQ (and I don’t think that’s the case), you are a dishonest person who will say anything to sell a product, or LV pays you to keep posting misinformation to bury the truth further back in the comments so others don’t see it. Sorry if that’s harsh, but this has been addressed many times already.
The FDA has not approved any statements about this product. This is on every page of the LV website….in very tiny print:
“These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. ”
Please provide a reference showing FDA approval.
There are predictable and verifiable consequences to not changing the oil in your car. There is no evidence that taking Protandim will result in any health benefit. It is simply speculation based on flimsy research.
Greg B,
You are going to have to provide some evidence (other than your random proclamation) that the FDA has given Life Vantage the approval to say its product “reduces oxidative stress”. I looked it up and cannot find any evidence of this approval. So please direct me to the link saying that.
Denis, one of the reasons the stock has cratered is because one Jason Domingo, Lifevantage’s top producer was fired by Lifevantage for trying to bring the stock price down by approaching significant investors and trying to get them to sell their positions. Now they have sued him in a Utah Federal Court.
CRG said: “Denis, one of the reasons the stock has cratered is because one Jason Domingo, Lifevantage’s top producer was fired by Lifevantage for trying to bring the stock price down by approaching significant investors and trying to get them to sell their positions. Now they have sued him in a Utah Federal Court.”
A classic case of live by the sword, die by the sword. The company’s success was due in large part to their “stealing” of distributors from Zrii (Domingo was one of them); they even got sued by Zrii as a result. This is what happens with MLMs all the time – when one starts to fade, the top distributors jump ship with their captive downlines to the next scam, and then the frivolous lawsuits start to fly (typically settled out of court under undisclosed terms). Think of the guys who jump ship as canaries in the mine – it’s the first telltale sign of impending disaster.
Bear in mind that the core of LFVN’s complaint against Domingo is that he “accused management of malfeasance and greed”, and in doing so, he was spot on.
If you’re looking for a dietary supplement that has been proven to be effective in improving your health bio-markers, look at the research on Juice Plus+. There are over 30 published, peer-reviewed scientific studies that have been done on thousands of humans – not lab rats or other animals.
Research proved years ago that Juice Plus+ greatly reduces oxidative stress and increases levels of key antioxidants – the same claims as Protandim. I’m a holistic nutritionist and I confidently recommend Juice Plus+ to my clients because the research is rock-solid and second to none.
I’ve been in this field for many years and still don’t understand why people don’t check out health products that they’re investing in – your review of Protandim is excellent and very factual – well done!
Deb, thanks I appreciate your kind words. I’m aware of Juice Plus also and have a couple of reviews on it. Here is my review of Juice Plus research.
Juice Plus!!! ROFL!!! A more worthless or misleadingly advertised product than Juice Plus would be hard to imagine. The company that sells it, National Safety Associates, has been at the snakeoil game even longer than than LifeVantage.
Is there anything at all left to debunk about Juice Plus at this point?
Deb, could you provide links to the published studies on Juice Plus and Oxidative Stress? I (and others, no doubt) wold be interested in finding out how it works, and how effective it is.
Can you take a muti vitamin with protandim example Centrum for Adults
Linda, I dont see why not. Protandim is not the same thing as a multi-vitamin and I’m not aware of anyone ever having problems with protandim and Centrium for example.
There’s no obvious reason why taking a multivitamin concurrently with Protandim would be an issue, but why would you? Bear in mind that Protandim is basically inert (not considering the contaminating metal fragments of course) and the multivitamin may or may not be beneficial (emerging research isn’t showing very promising results).
However, it’s interesting how this scenario conflicts with the company’s fairy tale back-story about the magic “synergistic ratio” of antioxidants…blah, blah, etc. The fundamental flaw in that story is that if one were to ingest a single sip of tea or a faint wisp of curry powder (or a multivitamin), the magical ratio of Protandim would be shot.
This is how it is with all of the company’s “scientific” pillars; the slightest bit of scrutiny brings them toppling down.
I wish I had seen your article before I signed up to get Protandim. I happened to see a flyer on it at my dermatologist’s office and he gave me a number to call. He is a great doctor so I guess I assumed that he felt it was a viable product that brought results.
I even bought the face cream after the lady I spoke with talked to me about it. It wasn’t until everything came today and there was no accompanying materials or instructions on either product that I came online to research it.
If I had known there was so little proof of it’s effectiveness, I would have saved my $100.00! Now I am not sure if I should try it for 30 days out of curiosity, or if I should send it back. I don’t really have that kind of money to spare, but there are those testimonies that seem to state that some people have seen results. Decisions, decisions!!
I am usually pretty savvy about things- I should have thought twice as soon as I realized it was MLM- but I couldn’t get past my doctor thinking it was worth a look. 🙁
Diana, I wish I had an good answer for you.
The instructions for Protandim are on the bottle–Adults, one caplet daily with food. The same with True Science–Apply to face and neck until fully absorbed. For best results, use twice daily, morning and night.
There is as much proof of Protandim’s effectiveness as for any supplement. Don’t let the brick-bats of ignorant bloggers dissuade you. You might ask your doctor why he is recommending Protandim and True Science. Do you think he would have his patients use something that was no good? Continue using these products for a month; you may be pleasantly surprised at the results (and whether you “feel” anything or not, you Oxidative Stress level will have gone down, and that is good for your health.
here is a link to a presentation Dr McCord gave on why Protandim is so valuable. You will find it very interesting. youtube.com/watch?v=OxzXLflzWVA
Greg, I guess I’m the “ignorant blogger” since Diana posted on my blog 🙂 While I appreciate your passion for Protandim, in addition to the youtube video you provided, I’d also entourage Diana to read through the comments to see my interactions with protandim distributors such as when I offered to test it on myself, the distributor – in exchange for giving me the product for free- wanted to stipulate where I could get my blood tested. Or another distributor (Christopher) who, after boldly proclaiming his knowledge of protandim, refused to answer my questions in this public forum.
Actually, I had in mind some others who have been posting here, not you. You have not been declaring, in the face of the evidence, that Protandim does not work, that the research is all faked, and that LifeVantage is a pyramid scheme. But some have said or implied those very things, and I fear Diana may be being influenced by such nonsense.
Thanks Greg 🙂
Reitterating that some distributors of this supplement may not have given you free product, may have not agreed to terms you think appropriate, or refused to answer as you felt was appropriate is hardly reflective of the product’s effectiveness or lack thereof, any more than the ignorance of a salesperson in any corner pharmacy, of the products they are selling, is reflective of those products’ quality, validity, or effectiveness.
Greg B said: “There is as much proof of Protandim’s effectiveness as for any supplement.”
False. First, there is more evidence showing that Protandim doesn’t work at all then there is showing that Protandim “works”.
[Burnham EL, McCord JM, Bose S, Brown LA, House R, Moss M, Gaydos J. Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders. Am J Physiol Lung Cell Mol Physiol. 2012 Apr 1;302(7):L688-99]
Secondly, relative to Protandim there has been far more research conducted on virtually every type of mineral and vitamin supplement, not to mention fish oil and EFAs, green tea extracts, etc. Your claim has no basis in fact whatsoever.
“Don’t let the brick-bats of ignorant bloggers dissuade you.”
No, instead let common sense do it for you.
“You might ask your doctor why he is recommending Protandim and True Science. Do you think he would have his patients use something that was no good?”
If he is in fact having recommending Protandim, then yes.
“Continue using these products for a month; you may be pleasantly surprised at the results (and whether you “feel” anything or not, you Oxidative Stress level will have gone down, and that is good for your health.”
Except evidence shows that Protandim doesn’t reliably lower oxidative stress in people, and trying to lower oxidative stress through supplementation isn’t necessarily good for health anyway.
You’re batting about zero for ten now Geg. Maybe it’s time to hit the showers.
Vogel, you must have flunked math. There are a dozen or so positive studies on Protandim, and only one negative (and it was incomplete), and yet you say “there is more evidence showing that Protandim doesn’t work at all then there is showing that Protandim “works”.” Tell me, which number is greater, 12, or 1?
When I said that Protandim has more research behind it than most all supplements, I meant that Protandim ITSELF has more studies than most supplements. Yes, there have been numerous studies on various vitamins, fish oils, minerals, etc, but when it comes to specific products, few of them actually get peer-reviewed, published studies done on them. Instead, the makers piggyback on studies of the various ingredients, but we consumers have no way of knowing if those particular products have the same amounts and purities as was in the studies, or if the combinations of ingredients help or hurt each other. With Protandim we have studies of Protandim itself, not just the ingredients. That is very significant.
Why, based on nothing other than your hatred of Protandim, are you libeling Diana’s doctor? Where is your evidence that lowering Oxidative Stress is bad for health? Are you gainsaying the scores of thousands of studies which indicate that high OS levels are linked to many serious diseases? There is massive evidence that Oxidative Stress is not good. On this, you are simply all wet!
Actually Greg, I aced math, which in part is why I am now able to authoritatively comment on the underlying science of bogus products like Protandim, while you are relegated to trying to sell them. Yours is not an enviable task, without a doubt.
You’re making the common rookie mistake (at least I hope it’s just a mistake) of confusing test tube studies and review articles with clinical (i.e., human) research. You cannot make assumptions about “health effects” per se based on test tube studies, because test tubes can neither be healthy or unhealthy. For all intents and purposes, human health can only be studied in humans. This should be simple to grasp — the logic isn’t complex at all.
There have been only 2 clinical (human) studies to date – an initial poorly designed company-executed study that showed a mild effect on plasma TBARS (which is not a reliable surrogate marker of “health”) and a follow-up study several years later that was well designed and demonstrated that Protandim had no effect on oxidative stress. Hence, my statement about the balance of evidence going against Protandim was perfectly accurate. There are many other problems with the test tube studies (non-physiological conditions, excessive dosing, etc.) and review articles on Protandim that the company initiated, but there’s really no need to delve into the details at this point, given the negative clinical evidence.
You didn’t say said that “Protandim has more research behind it than most all supplements”; you said “there is as much proof of Protandim’s effectiveness as for any supplement”. The latter statement is clearly false. Now we have someone saying that Juice Plus (another MLM snakeoil product) has 30 studies? That seems to negate your claim even further. The simple fact is that you don’t know how many studies have been done on other supplements. You’re just making a blind and apparently inaccurate guess.
Greg said: “Why, based on nothing other than your hatred of Protandim, are you libeling Diana’s doctor?”
Do you always ask such silly misleading questions Greg? It’s just like if I were to ask you “when did you stop beating your wife”? I obviously didn’t “libel” Dianna’s doctor. I don’t even know Dianna’s doctor’s name; I don’t even know that the doctor, or Dianna for that matter, exist at all, which is why I asked for the alleged physician’s name. Still waiting too.
Greg said: “Where is your evidence that lowering Oxidative Stress is bad for health?”
Could you try a bit harder to not be so careless when paraphrasing my comments? What I said was “trying to lower oxidative stress through supplementation isn’t necessarily good for health.” There is ample evidence to support my statement, but rather than you putting the onus on me to spoon-feed it to you so that you in turn can ignore it, why don’t you do some homework of your own, and then if you ask me nicely I might be able to help you fill in any remaining gaps in your knowledge. Just don’t expect me to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. No one can make you smarter if you refuse to learn.
Give it a year or two Greg and when Protandim has passed on to the graveyard of obsolete MLM scams, you’ll be on some other board extolling the wonders of the next great Utah pyramid scheme snakeoil product. I wish better than that for you though.
I don’t understand why people are quibbling over the studies and putting it down without reviewing the many testimonials of people who are using the product…yes many are distributors, but like me, became one to get the distributor price.
I researched the product and talked to many people including doctors. The subject came up about why the company doesn’t have its own study on humans….would the results be believable by the company that makes the product? You question the validity of blood tests performed in the video because they were performed by Dr. McCord.
I just know that before I found this product, I was suffering from the side effects of the drugs the doctors had put me on after being diagnosed with lupus and autoimmune hepatitis that had damaged my liver. I had to research alternatives on my own, since the doctors would have nothing to do with natural products.
I since am off all medications and taking all natural supplements, which includes Protandim. I ran out of the Protandim at one time and my symptoms began returning until I was able to take again.I have also had recent blood tests done by my doctors and they all come back normal in every aspect.
I am not making any money as a distributor because I don’t feel comfortable pushing products, I just know how it works for me. If there weren’t so many naysayers out there maybe more people would try more of these natural products. Yes, it is a mlm but you can buy from a distributor or now they have the preferred customer option to get at discounted price on autoship…which is very easy to cancel at any time…
I have done it and customer service is very helpful. I am not including a distributor link as I don’t care if you believe me or not…it is your health! If you find something else that works for you, great!
Diyanne, there are 2 reasons I reviewed the protandim research:
1. The research on supplements is the main focus of my website. It’s how I personally make sense of them.
2. Protandim is being marked as different from other supplements primarily because of its research. Its the reason why pretty every protandim distributor I’ve encountered says the same thing over and over again – go to pubmed and see the research for yourself. So I did.
That said, I won’t depreciate the results you say you’ve had since you started using it. If you say its helped you then I’ll say I’m happy for you-because I really am. Testimonials can be a good jumping off point for research but they can’t take the place of research.
As for the question you posed Yes, if the research is well done and there is no conflict of interests, I have no problem with company-sponsored research. I’ve said many times, I like it when companies invest money to study their supplements.
For the record, I have nothing against MLM, although I’m sure you will agree that its possible for some of those testimonials online to be fake, generated by people who have an agenda to sell the product. I know this happens because I – with the help of others- have caught at least one of those people posting fake testimonials here. This is another reason I lean toward the science.
I do consider the testimonials. But I give more weight to the research.
Diana,
1. What was the dermatologists name?
2. Yes, of course you should return the product for a refund if you still can. That’s a no-brainer.
3. Ignore testimonials. Every ineffective snakeoil product in history has been sold using testimonials. The absurdity of the testimonials used — covertly — to sell Protandim leave no doubt that they are used simply to fleece people.
Diana,I would like to weigh in on the subject of protandim. 3 years ago I was looking for natural ways to help combat my type two diabetes.. After trying many products, I tried protandim and had great results. it’s obviously not going to cure my diabetes, but my quality of life has greatly improved. I recommended it to another friend who is diabetic, and another with MS. both friends have had positive results and have been taking protandim for at least two years.
I question peoples agenda in this matter. If something can really help you and certainly not hurt why in the world would it matter how it’s sold. Take the product for four months, decide for yourself what’s best for you!
It is your agenda that deserves to be questioned Lisa. Are you not aware that (a) the company has never claimed nor produced even one iota of evidence to suggest that this this curry-flavored placebo has any therapeutic effects for diabetes or MS; (b) anonymous unvetted testimonials (especially from from Protandim distributors) are completely unreliable; and (c) it’s illegal for distributors to make claims of curative or therapeutic effects of the product?
Anyone who looks at this situation objectively would realize that in the many years that Protandim has been available, there would have been ample opportunity and incentive for the company to have demonstrated efficacy for the treatment of diabetes and MS if in fact the product had even modest value — it would be a multi-billion dollar blockbuster.
There are only two logical conclusions to be drawn here: (1) you’re mistaken; (2) you’re lying. There is ample precedent for both of these possibilities, as we have witnessed myriad distributors who are too ignorant to tie their own shoes laces and shockingly willing to tell lies at other people’s expense.
Some people practice knee-jerk negativism. Their lives are consumed with envy, jealousy, and hatred. The best thing to do is just ignore such persons, and do what you have found to be right for you. If Protandim has helped you and your friends, great!
Greg B said: “Some people practice knee-jerk negativism. Their lives are consumed with envy, jealousy, and hatred. The best thing to do is just ignore such persons, and do what you have found to be right for you. If Protandim has helped you and your friends, great!”
Helping people to not get screwed over by con artists is positive, not negative. Furthermore, there’s nothing knee-jerk about my responses (unlike your own), which have been consistently thorough, carefully articulated, logical, and grounded in facts and reality. I don’t feel even a tinge of envy, jealousy, or hatred toward you or any other desperate soul who got caught up in the LifeVantage racket — it’s absurd for you to suggest such a thing. What’s to envy? The position of LifeVantage distributor is about as exclusive as a subscription to TV Guide (LifeVantage will provide a “distributorship” to anyone anyone with a pulse and check book), has about as much prestige as cleaning toilets, and typically generates (on a good day) about as much revenue as a child’s lemonade stand, if that. I do, however, detest the action (not the actor) of trying to deceive people into a pyramid scheme that has great potential to be financially and/or physically harmful to its participants.
Absent from your whiny cantankerous diatribe was any attempt whatsoever to counter the cold hard facts and logic behind what I posted. There is every reason to disbelieve anonymous testimonials of miraculous benefits from snakeoil placebo salespeople who show no respect for logic, decency, or U.S. law.
I’d pity you for your lousy lot in life, were it not for the fact that you do nothing to merit anyone’s sympathy.
Oh look…it’s Greg B…..
You must be back to provide us proof that the FDA approved LifeVantage’s claim that Protandim reduces oxidative stress, right?
I have learned that my source for that statement was mistaken, so I take it back. But Protandim DOES reduce Oxidative Stress better than any other product on the market, FDA approval of the claim or not!
Quick off topic question guys. Is anyone having trouble finding the comments you post on the website? Just curious if anyone is, let me know. Thanks 🙂
Most of the comments seem to have disappeared. Nothing I’ve put in in the past couple of days is there. I wonder if this will be. I will also reply directly to the e-mail.
Greg, thanks for that feedback. Ive approved everything you have submitted. I know its getting through to people because others are responding to you. I’m going to look into this and see if a solution can be found. Thanks for your patience.
Joe, my comments are disappearing. I saw them then they are gone. I just thought you were flagging me off the board as inappropriate “bad” stuff or something. Bad Joe
Joe, I’m not flagging you or anybody else. I posted your reply to Greg B last night and I can see it on my end. I appreciate you and Greg B letting me know so Lisa knows its not just her. I’ll be looking into this tomorrow.
very interesting and informative. I enjoyed your article and appreciate your research.
L. Perry
L Perry, you are quite welcome. I am happy to have helped you.
Test comment . Lisa. did you get this and can you see it in the comments stream?
I can see this, Joe. Deb Holton-Smith
Deb, thanks for the feedback. happy you can see the comments.
Since curcumin is in protandim, I thought Id pass this along to everybody
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.24967/full
I was intrigued by what the author said about effects of curcumin overlapping with side effects such as chromosomal breaking. Given that its hard to raise levels of curcumin in the body, Im not sure if this holds true for our discussion of protandim or not. Just wanted to pass it along.
This was submitted to me via another review I wrote on an arthritis product called Zyflamend.
There was a study of elderly people (up to ~80 years old) and Tbars were noted to have dropped by 40% over all after 60 days. I’m just getting the feeling that you are a bit biased. I have met several people who have been very grateful for the results. One doctor’s wife lost all symptoms of Parkinsons after 60 days. I know of a child whose ADD symptoms were considerably lowered and his focus enhanced. Dr. McCord, by the way, is a renown researcher in this field and has been for over 40 years winning numerous awards from his peers.
Teri, I appreciate you writing. May I ask you a question: How am I being biased if the only thing I did was show you the research on Protandim in a way that breaks it down so people can understand it?
If I were the company that makes protandim, I’d be thrilled at hearing words like yours and it would cause me to do better research that has been done so far. They can afford to do research and I’m not buying the excuse that they dont want people to say “they supported the research.”
Considering what you just said you’ve seen, I’d call the LV company and ask they to please do the research to support the things you are saying. I’d welcome seeing better research.
I am a real person, 56 yrs old, that has had Parkinson’s for 10 1/2 years. I started taking Protandim 5 days ago and the last 2 days, I’ve felt better than I’ve felt in a very long time (at least 5 years). I’m not going to sell it because I just don’t want the hassle of dealing with something like that, so I’m not a distributor, but I can attest that it has definitely helped me. I can let you know how I feel in another few weeks, but today I’m a very happy person.
Deb Bentz said: “I am a real person, 56 yrs old, that has had Parkinson’s for 10 1/2 years. I started taking Protandim 5 days ago and the last 2 days, I’ve felt better than I’ve felt in a very long time (at least 5 years). I’m not going to sell it because I just don’t want the hassle of dealing with something like that, so I’m not a distributor, but I can attest that it has definitely helped me. I can let you know how I feel in another few weeks, but today I’m a very happy person.”
As usual, that testimonial is frustratingly vague — “feel better” can mean just about anything. I hope that are you are simply referring to some outcome that has nothing to do with Parkinson’s symptoms, like peace of mind, because it is not even remotely plausible that Parkinson’s symptoms would be alleviated by cheap kitchen spices sold through a pyramid scheme organization notable only for its dishonesty. The burden of proof to support such a claim goes well beyond the purposely vague unverifiable testimonials of people who claim “I am not a distributor BUT…”
The writer of this article goes on about how he interpreted the peer reviews and what his point of view is of Protandim, but who or what makes you qualify to interpret the results of the peer reviews and what makes you smarter than everyone else?
If you haven’t tried it and you’re basing your opinion on the facts of the studies then you carry no weight cause your not smarter than the science behind the product. Why would you dispute people’s testimonial telling you how they feel better while taking Protandim?
Unfortunately for people reading your blogs has to have another wannabe, attention hungry writer who wants their 5 minutes of fame and even be recognized alongside Protandim and Lifevantage.
Sorry no one cares about your opinion and no validation having perspective. Sorry dude no one cares about your opinion….
Pro T, So you cant refute my analysis of the protandim research, so you attack me. hmmmm…
Teri said: “There was a study of elderly people (up to ~80 years old) and Tbars were noted to have dropped by 40% over all after 60 days.”
Did you not bother to read any of the discussion about that study? The research you refer to [Nelson et al. Free Radic Biol Med. 2006 Jan 15;40(2):341-7] was a poor quality study (non-blinded, non-randomized, non-controlled, high dropout rate) involving a very small group of subjects (some of whom were investors in the company; and please note that the study population was not elderly) conducted by LifeVantage insiders (including McCord who has a multi-million dollar stake in the company), and the results could not be reproduced in a much better designed follow-up clinical trial [Burnham et al. Am J Physiol Lung Cell Mol Physiol. 2012 Apr 1;302(7):L688-99], which showed that Protandim had no effect whatsoever on TBARS.
Teri said: “ I’m just getting the feeling that you are a bit biased.”
Hey pot, meet kettle!
Teri said: “I have met several people who have been very grateful for the results. One doctor’s wife lost all symptoms of Parkinsons after 60 days.”
Um…really? I can predict with 100% certainty that Protandim does not/did not cure Parkinson’s disease and that this claim is utterly false. Nonetheless, you’re welcome to provide whatever documentation you may have to support this incredible claim. Let’s start with the name of the doctor, who I’m sure would be only too happy to share these miraculous results with the public if they were in fact true (but we all know they aren’t and that you won’t come up with a name or any substantiation, right?).
Teri said: “ I know of a child whose ADD symptoms were considerably lowered and his focus enhanced.”
That didn’t happen. Protandim does not alleviate ADD. See comment above.
Dr. McCord, by the way, is a renown (sic) researcher in this field and has been for over 40 years winning numerous awards from his peers.
So what? Aside from the fact that McCord has a multi-million dollar interest in Protandim (which should be significant to you given that you express such concern about bias), he did not create the product, is no longer and active researcher, and his employment by LifeVantage has been terminated.. McCord had been brought on specifically to lend an aura of credibility to the product, so that distributors, (i.e. people like you) when confronted with damming facts about the company and its product, could dodge the issues and hide behind his apron strings.
I get the overwhelming impression Teri that you are a distributor for the company. It is illegal (and highly unethical) to make claims that Protandim can cure, treat, prevent or mitigate the symptoms of diseases. I wonder why it is that you feel that the law (and the company’s toothless policies barring such claims) don’t apply to you.
So Vogel sounds like so many other naysayers that I see out there. Sounds like a personal agenda on Vogel’s side too, if not just an air of superiority. I remember two decades of naysaying and similar maligning of glucosamine, long before physicians came around to the scientific facts that support its use.
I’m not caught up on the in-vivo, in-vitro, or animal testing. Maybe Vogel would be happier if it was licensed to “Big Pharma” and then they could afford the testing and steps to get it to Vogel’s standards….twenty years from now and at a reasonable prescription rate that makes the skeptical feel better that they are getting what they pay for. No thanks.
I’ll use it as long as it works for me, placebo effect or not. Just like my multi-vitamin, fatty acid gel cap, blue berries, dark chocolate, etc. Hey Vogel, maybe you should look into the health effects of Gin and Tequila just documented in a UK study published last week, in all seriousness. Maybe at least you’d be a little less tense and bitter about the facts that Dr. McCord is fully allowed to profit for his efforts, work, and opinions, whether he created the product or just augmented the considerations that led to its creation. Considering your palpable stress level in your narrative, maybe the simple solution is for you to try the product.
Harvey said: “So Vogel sounds like so many other naysayers that I see out there. Sounds like a personal agenda on Vogel’s side too, if not just an air of superiority.”
What I post here, Mr. Harvey, are facts and logical fact-based conclusions. For you to arbitrarily dismiss my comments as the “personal agenda” of a “naysayer” is the height of intellectual dishonesty. What matters is whether or not my statements are true; and they are. If they weren’t, you’d at least try to tackle the details head on, instead of resorting to this baseless ad hominem nonsense.
Harvey said: “I remember two decades of naysaying and similar maligning of glucosamine, long before physicians came around to the scientific facts that support its use.
Um, so what? Why introduce this glucosamine red herring into the discussion? It’s not even worthy of a reply other than to point out that you’re using logical fallacies to dodge the issues at hand.
Harvey said: “I’m not caught up on the in-vivo, in-vitro, or animal testing.
Again, so what? It matters very much whether or not the research is conducted in test tubes or human. What doesn’t matter is whether or not you care.
Harvey said: “Maybe Vogel would be happier if it was licensed to “Big Pharma” and then they could afford the testing and steps to get it to Vogel’s standards….twenty years from now and at a reasonable prescription rate that makes the skeptical feel better that they are getting what they pay for. No thanks.”
That’s a ridiculous scenario to concoct. Protandim isn’t going to be licensed to Big Pharma because Big Pharma doesn’t invest in worthless Utah MLM snakeoil products. Lifevantage has (or at least had) plenty of cash that they could have put towards R&D to advance the product through the FDAs approval process, and they would have done so over the last decade since it was introduced — if there was even an iota of promise that it would succeed. But seeing as how Protandim is nothing more than a worthless blend of cheap kitchen spices designed to fool rubes into joining a pyramid scheme; they have never had nor will they ever have any intention of doing so.
Harvey said: “I’ll use it as long as it works for me, placebo effect or not. Just like my multi-vitamin, fatty acid gel cap, blue berries, dark chocolate, etc.”
Knock yourself out Keith. You’ve been duly warned about what the product and company are really all about. Even if it did “work for you (notice how risk-averse promoters of this product conspicuously fail to define what “works” means), it doesn’t change the fact that the company has been deceptive since its inception and that their executives and distributors routinely violate U.S. law by fraudulently promoting the product as wonder cure for a myriad of diseases.
Harvey said: “Hey Vogel, maybe you should look into the health effects of Gin and Tequila just documented in a UK study published last week, in all seriousness.”
Funny how you accuse me of having a personal vendetta, and yet you are directing all your ire against me personally instead of grappling with the facts on the table. Why would you suggest that I do research on gin and tequila when neither have anything at all to do with Protandim? Your comment would be more appropriate for a blog where liquor is the subject of discussion. It has no place here.
Harvey said: “Maybe at least you’d be a little less tense and bitter about the facts that Dr. McCord is fully allowed to profit for his efforts, work, and opinions, whether he created the product or just augmented the considerations that led to its creation.”
I’m neither tense nor bitter that McCord was “allowed” to profit. I do however believe that the public should be aware of how Lifevantage lied about McCord’s role in the product’s development, and how they misleadingly presented his shoddy publications (tainted by multi-million dollar conflict of interest), as “independent” research to support the fraudulent promotion of Protandim as a medicinal agent.
Harvey said: “Considering your palpable stress level in your narrative, maybe the simple solution is for you to try the product.”
Maybe you should make an effort to become more familiar with your surroundings and more sensitive to you audience. It’s quite idiotic to suggest that I should try the product, given the multitude of airtight reasons not to that have presented to date, and even more so to suggest that the snakekoil pills you’re promoting can in any way relieve stress.
Dr Harvey before you get too worked up over anything Vogel has to say please understand his only agenda is getting people worked up as he benefits a great deal way financially from these discussions. Please don’t pay him any mind, as he is definitely isn’t worth it. You might take a look at this link for a better understanding of Vogel’s position.
http://protandimretort.com/
And Joe, if you are reading this, the answer to many of your earlier questions about why Dr McCords name is on all of the studies is touched on further down the page. Its worth you time.
Paul, I looked at the site you referenced. It looks like a page created in 2012 by an anonymous person, probably a protandim distributor for the sole purpose of countering the arguments of the “lazyman” who has addressed Protandim on his own site. Here is the lazyman article for those who don’t know about it: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/lifevantage-protandim-scam/
Whether or not Vogel is Lazyman I have no idea and I dont think its relevant because allegations from one anonymous person about another anonymous person add nothing to the conversation. Also, I dont want to get into character assignations of anyone here (I know lazyman and protandim people are like oil and water).
Personally, I feel the “who discovered protandim” argument detracts from the elephant in the room – the lack of human studies.
I noticed that the tagline of the site you referenced is is “clearing up the lies spread by lazyman and other misinformed bloggers” – I hope I’m not one of those misinformed bloggers?
Paul said: “Dr Harvey before you get too worked up over anything Vogel has to say please understand his only agenda is getting people worked up as he benefits a great deal way financially from these discussions.”
Quite untrue; I would prefer that people (you included) don’t get “worked up” and instead just calmly discuss the facts. Secondly, I don’t benefit at all financially from this discussion. Presumably you made that baseless accusation because like all Protandim distributors, you are hobbled by a clear-cut financial conflict of interest, and being unable to counter the damning facts, you instead try to tar every critic with the same brush, evidence be damned.
Paul said: “Please don’t pay him any mind, as he is definitely isn’t worth it. You might take a look at this link for a better understanding of Vogel’s position. http://protandimretort.com/”
That laughably inept, error-ridden website has no bearing at all on my position. It doesn’t even mention me. It is an anonymous LifeVantage distributor’s cowardly attempt at character assassination (of Lazyman and his website), in lieu of any solid logical arguments in favor of Protandim. The hypocrisy of your (and Harvey’s) comments are unmistakable – I am the ONLY subject that you’re paying any mind to. Neither of you have said a word about the mountain of facts that weight against Protandim/LifeVantage (because doing so would be an exercise in futility).
Paul said: “And Joe, if you are reading this, the answer to many of your earlier questions about why Dr McCords name is on all of the studies is touched on further down the page. Its worth you time.”
The misinformation on the site you directed Joe to is worthless, as it implies that McCord did not make substantial contributions to the research but rather only supplied the Protandim for the study and a bit of advice on dosing. This assertion has been thoroughly debunked already (NB: I shouldn’t have to remind you of the importance of reading the comments here before spouting off).
All authors on scientific journal publications are required to have made substantial contributions to the research itself (e.g. experimental design, execution, and data analysis) as well as to the writing and final approval of the manuscript. One would not qualify for authorship for merely having supplied a supplement product for a study or advice on dosing (it would warrant at best a shout-out in the acknowledgements section). Since you didn’t bother to read the link I provided the first time, I will do so again.
http://www.icmje.org/recommendations/browse/roles-and-responsibilities/defining-the-role-of-authors-and-contributors.html
If someone were to claim authorship without having made substantial contributions, it would be an act of fraud. Furthermore, at least one of the studies explicitly states that McCord wrote the manuscript, which directly contradicts your central premise.
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0005284&representation=PDF
Despite what that laughably moronic white-washy apologist website says, McCord’s financial conflict of interest taints every one of the studies on Protandim. The aim of whoever put up that site (and you as well apparently) is to deceive the public. Not cool at all. This can only come back to bite you.
What study? Please provide a link to the study.
Dr. McCord lost all credibility when he allowed Lifevantage to claim that he “invented” Protandim. He sold his reputation for millions.
Yes, that’s him alright.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/supplementwatchcom-independent-reviews/
Lisa, thanks. That is an interesting website. Thanks for the heads up.
May I make a request of those on this blog who have been so negative about Protandim… Could you tell us why you are so anti-Protandim? You keep saying that it doesn’t work, in spite of the fact that about a dozen legitimate studies indicate that it does, with only one incomplete study saying it doesn’t.
You keep warning that Protandim could be dangerous, yet no studies support, or even hint at, that. I am not even aware of any anecdotal evidence that Protandim is harmful or dangerous. It has been around since 2005; if it was dangerous we would know by now, don’t you think? Yes, the ingredients may cause an allergic reaction in a few people, but that can be said about any herbal-based product.
Yes, it does act as a detoxifier for some who take, and that process can be unpleasant, but such persons need to detoxify, so Protandim is doing them good. It is certainly a lot safer than many of the pharmaceutical products currently on the market.
So what is the real reason for the negativism being posted here? [I do not consider being cautious and wanting to see more studies before deciding as negative, so this is not aimed at our host, Joe C.]
Greg says: “You keep saying that it doesn’t work, in spite of the fact that about a dozen legitimate studies indicate that it does, with only one incomplete study saying it doesn’t.”
No matter how many times you repeat that, Greg, it simply isn’t true. As you are well aware by now, there are NOT a dozen legitimate studies indicating that Protandim “works.” This has been explained over and over again. A legitimate study which proves Protandim “works” would be on humans, and other scientists would be replicating those experiments to verify the results.
Greg says: “You keep warning that Protandim could be dangerous, yet no studies support, or even hint at, that. I am not even aware of any anecdotal evidence that Protandim is harmful or dangerous. It has been around since 2005; if it was dangerous we would know by now, don’t you think?”
Again, this has been addressed. There are studies which indicate that mopping up free radicals may be harmful. As for “no evidence that Protandim is harmful,” I don’t see where anyone is monitoring consumers of Protandim to come to any conclusions about that one way or another. Who knows? IF Protandim really does what it claims to do, there are no studies being conducted to determine what the long term risks/benefits are. Maybe 10 years from now, people taking Protandim will have a higher rate of cancer, or other issues.
Of course, the other harm of being sold snake oil is that people are mislead into believing they can go off their medications, or perhaps try the product instead of seeking medical help. There are videos of company executives at conventions misleading distributors into believing that Protandim prevents cancer. Illegal medical claims by distributors are the norm for this company…that’s the only way to sell it, really. Lifevantage does little or nothing to distributors making illegal medical claims, and by their own actions, encourage this behavior.
So why am I so negative about Protandim and LifeVantage? All the reasons above, plus I don’t like to be lied to, and I hate to see gullible people duped into thinking this is some kind of medical breakthrough. My history with this product is back in the comments somewhere.
Lisa, you and I obviously have different ideas about what constitutes a legitimate study. I say that if a study passes the peer-review process, and is published in a respectable medical journal, it is legitimate. You, however, seem to have a higher standard than the editors and reviewers of those journals, all of whom have MDs and/or PhDs. With all due respect, I will go with the experts here!
As for free radicals, in small numbers they do serve a good function. But when their numbers get out of control, they damage cells, causing cell malfunction, which leads to Oxidative Stress. There are literally thousands of studies which show that high OS levels are harmful. OS is known to be a major factor in the development of many serious, deadly diseases. You are right–eliminating all free radicals would not be good. But Protandim does not eliminate all free radicals, it just reduces the number of them to the level seen in the average twenty-something. Doing this reduces OS, which all scientists who have studied this problem say is a good thing.
There is a form of monitoring of Protandim takers among us distributors, in that when those we have signed up have problems with Protandim, they let us know! We distributors communicate among one another about these cases. Yes, there are a small number of people who can not take Protandim; just just react badly. But it is always either an allergy, or detoxification. To the large majority of the population Protandim is not harmful, but helpful. As for long-term studies, there may well be some going on, but being long-term, it will be a while before the results are published. As for those of us taking Protandim having higher cancer rates, that is most unlikely, since we are experiencing low OS levels, and high OS is one of the major factors behind cancer. But we will see.
Neither LV itself, nor any distributors who are compliant tell people to go off any medications they might currently be on. In fact, we strongly urge those under medical care to consult with their doctors before starting Protandim, to make sure it will not interfere with their treatment. As for preventing cancer, we don’t say that it will, but we do point to the LSU mouse study, in which Protandim did significantly reduce both the number of mice getting cancer, and the number of cancers per mouse, compared to the control group of mice. Of course, we will not know until years from now if that result is true for humans, as we can’t have any human studies that involve trying to give people cancer (unless you’d like to volunteer for one!). We will just have to wait and see what the rate of cancer is among regular Protandim takers, compared to the general population.
As for LV doing nothing to distributors who are regularly non-compliant in their claims about Protandim, such persons have their distributorships taken away. How often that happens I do not know, but if it is infrequent, it is because those who make unfounded claims either stop when they learn they are doing it wrong, or they become inactive, or quit on their own. LV certainly does not ignore the problem. Every properly done presentation we make, and every compliant piece of literature we print, includes the statement that Protandim is not intended to either diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any disease.
Greg says: “Lisa, you and I obviously have different ideas about what constitutes a legitimate study. I say that if a study passes the peer-review process, and is published in a respectable medical journal, it is legitimate. You, however, seem to have a higher standard than the editors and reviewers of those journals, all of whom have MDs and/or PhDs. With all due respect, I will go with the experts here!”
It‘s not so much about individual studies and whether they are legitimate or not, but it is about what can be concluded from them. The research conducted so far falls VERY short for being able to claim that Protandim reduces oxidative stress in humans, or produces any health benefit.
Greg, as I‘ve pointed out before, it is not MY opinion or idea as to what amounts to valid, relevant research, or substantiated claims. Those guidelines are set by the scientific community, and in the case of substantiated claims for supplements, the FTC. Protandim doesn’t even come close to meeting the standards. I think I’ll go with the experts here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/aboutcer/
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus09-dietary-supplements-advertising-guide-industry
Greg. That’s easy. Call it bang for the buck. Call it Freakenomics. Call it frugality. Call it “why pay more, LOTS MORE, when you can pay lots less? Guy from ATT commercial: ” Kids? What is better, paying more or paying less?”
Because Greg, if “it” is being sold by ANY MLM, one can search out and buy “it” for way cheaper in the open market. In other words, Greg, in a free market economy, you don’t actually have the monopoly you have been programmed by your particular pyramid scheme to think you have.
There are “professional deprogrammers”, soldiers, coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq, who are looking for jobs. Perhaps you hire one to deprogram you off your pyramid scheme? Lord knows, all us here are just spinning our wheels trying to get you to see the light. You must have a garage or big closet packed with ‘pyramid scheme product inventory’ and looking for another oblivious patsy to unload it on.
Joe–“Because Greg, if “it” is being sold by ANY MLM, one can search out and buy “it” for way cheaper in the open market. In other words, Greg, in a free market economy, you don’t actually have the monopoly you have been programmed by your particular pyramid scheme to think you have.”
my reply–Now it is true that some MLMs sell overpriced versions of what can be found in stores, but that it not the case here. Protandim is a patented product, so there are no “store brand” versions available. There are no products in stores which can do what Protandim does–powerfully activate Nrf2, leading to significant lowering of Oxidative Stress. I’m sure other companies are trying to develop products that do what Protandim does, but to my knowledge that haven’t succeeded yet, and you can be sure that if they do come up with something it will cost about the same as Protandim. I’m all for the free market, but the free market does not allow someone to copycat products and violate the law. With movies and music we call that bootlegging. With Protandim it would be patent violation.
“I’m all for the free market, but the free market does not allow someone to copycat products and violate the law. With movies and music we call that bootlegging. With Protandim it would be patent violation.”
The patent is useless since it‘s just a recipe which can be easily altered…..as LV proved when they left out ashwagandha for the Japanese version of Protandim. There is no magic formula.
After reading all of the posts on this blog, most of the negativity that I see is coming from that “green eyed monster” called jealousy. Some people just can’t stand the fact that there are people that can and do make millions of dollars creating and marketing a product (I refer only to the statements made by many posters and not to the host of this site, who I think is extremely fair and rational in his reviews).
However, with that being said, wouldn’t it also be fair to say that the same review of most if not all pharmaceuticals would have multiple questions and controversies as well? Not to mention many commonly prescribed pharmaceuticals in fact, DO have multiple and sometimes severe negative side effects, and are also incredibly expensive, much more so than Protandim. In my opinion, the only “test” that really matters is if it works for you, and it certainly worked for me.
Protandim has been the only product that has completely relieved the muscle and joint pain I have that was associated with a serious car accident 3 years ago, for which I am extremely grateful and I will continue to use it. It has also reduced my migraines to almost zero, where I used to get 3-5 a month. Sure, I could take the ingredients individually, but I don’t want to. I am glad to have found a product that works for me and has all the ingredients in one place so that I don’t have to take a bunch of supplements individually. I also realize that this is a supplement and have no grand delusions that it is some kind of “miracle” pill.
Just for the record, I am not thrilled with the Protandim business, but I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for marketing the business and making money along the way. What in the world do you think Big Pharma does?
This is a great back and forth, he said, she said, but,….. all we have to judge this product by are small studies, and personal testimonials.
What leaves so many skeptical is that there have been no known independent lab studies to either validate or disprove the claims made by the company. Plenty of time has lapsed since the famous ABC story to do an independent lab follow-up.
I believe that it is irrelevant that it’s mlm (although I have told a friend that if he brought me one more mlm scheme I’d shoot him dead). I don’t care how they think it best to “distribute” their product.
The problem with personal testimonials only, is that WE don’t know the difference between “My husband and I have been taking it for a year, and now we don’t have high cholesterol” and “Tide makes my clothes whiter!”
I will spare you my own because they are just that- one person’s.
I would be happy to pay for my bottles during a study, and I’m sure there would be a thousand other people willing to do same.
Give us facts not hearsay.
Phil that is actually a very interesting. I’m sure there are a lot of people who would pay for protandim if they were part of a study on protandim.
Why on Earth would that even be an issue? It costs the company just pennies a bottle to produce. Why wouldn’t LV provide the product for a study?
Phil, have you actually looked at the published studies? Most were not conducted by the company, but by universities such as LSU, VCU, and Ohio State. Neither did the company pay for most of the studies. To say that, since Dr McCord (one of the world’s leading authority on the subject of Oxidative Stress) had a role in many of the studies means that they are invalid, is to insult the integrity of those other scientists, and of those institutions. Go to pubmed.gov and enter Protandim in the search box, and see what is there. We are relying on science, not testimonies.
Greg, I dont believe there is a need to go to Pubmed anymore. I believe I have listed, linked to and summarized all of the protandim research to date. If I missed any research studies, do let me know as I want to keep my review up to date.
Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that LV distributors are rationalizing when it comes to the research. Distributors say the studies were not conducted by LV – yet Dr McCords name is on most of the studies. I dont know if you can have it both ways Greg. What do you think?
By the way, which studies DID LV sponsor for?
Joe, you may have linked the studies, but newer readers of this blog may not know that, or have time to go back and look for them. It would be easier for them to just go to pubmed directly. They can also look at what has been learned about the negative aspects of Oxidative Stress (over 120,000 studies as of today).
Just because Dr McCord had a part in most of the studies doesn’t mean that LV sponsored or conducted those studies. In several of them researchers from other schools came to him and asked for his assistance in their studies, which they, not LV, were conducting. They came to him because of his authority as a world-renowned expert on free radical biology, which he was long before he ever heard of Protandim. Do you think Dr McCord was supposed to stop doing research on Protandim? He was/is very interested in what it will and will not do. Do you think he would sacrifice his well-earned reputation as a scientist for some worthless pill? Yes, LV paid him, but not that much!
As for which studies LV actually conducted/sponsored, I am not sure. I have heard, from more than one person, that the first two [40% reduction in OS after 30 days, and 300% increase in Glutathione] were LV studies, but I don’t know who paid for the others. My understanding is that the DoD paid for the altitude study. In any case, no matter who put up the money for them, they still had to pass the peer-review process in order to be published, and, as you know, the peer-reviewers don’t know who conducts studies they are asked to examine, much less who pays for them. Yes, more research on Protandim would be nice to have, but what we have so far is enough to persuade me, and about 200,000 others, that it is worth taking.
Greg, I’m pretty confident that people here – newbies and not – have read my review and are aware of how I broke all the protandim studies down. Since many people thinking about protandim may not know how to read a research study (we both know they can be boring and filled with BIG words and numbers), I feel my summary of the studies is much more valuable to the average person than going to pubmed (the national library of medicine). And for those who want more, I conveniently linked to all of the studies too. For most people, it’s more work to sort through pubmed to get the answers.
Greg, I’d imagine that some distributors must be frustrated with LV over the lack of good human research conducted to date. Have any distributors made overtures to LV about getting better research out there – even if it means doing the research themselves?
Greg says: “Do you think he would sacrifice his well-earned reputation as a scientist for some worthless pill? Yes, LV paid him, but not that much!”
Yes, he clearly sacrificed his reputation when he allowed LV to falsely claim that he (McCord) invented Protandim. We’ve already covered the fact that McCord was compensated handsomely for his part in this ruse…in the millions. You, Greg, are already aware of that, and yet you keep repeating things like this. I suspect you do it in order to bury the truth further back in the comments so that others may not see it.
I see that LV has replaced McCord with Shawn Talbott. That’s a match made in heaven, isn’t it? He jumps from one snake oil company to another, and has already been fined over a million dollars by the FTC for deceptive advertising for his involvement with Cortislim. He should fit right in.
LisaRob, Shawn Talbott. I think I know that name. he used to run a supplement website didn’t he? supplementwatch.com? just tried to find it. looks like its no longer in business.
None of the studies qualify as independent.
The company bent over backwards to whitewash the fact that they were involved in all of the research in one way or another. This is yet another pointless misleading argument.
The studies don’t show that PT has any health benefits, and yet the products are being marketed as wonder cures. Sad to think that they could injure or kill someone through their deceptive snakeoil marketing
As always thanks to Joe for being fair, objective and unemotional when responding. I personally am taking Protandim and feel that it is a benefit to my health. However I am also a distributor who is no longer selling the product since I found out about the questionable research that I was told when I was recruited was iron clad. The problem with MLM is that it makes it all sound hokey, like I was told that the FDA approved LV saying it reduced oxidative stress but I have not seen any proof of that.
When you hear the same references over and over from multiple people involved with LV it feels like they are brainwashed robots who all have the same static answers to your questions.
I feel comfortable taking it and believe in the product but I no longer feel comfortable selling it to the public without more actual provable research.
BigMan, thanks I appreciate you saying that. I truly do 🙂
I would certainly not want to impugn the “other” scientists, but if one could make an analogy, would you trust data on “Global Warming” (now called “climate change” because it’s freezing) if Al Gore was paying for the research, or involved in the study?
In the words of my grandfather- quit while you’re behind.
Speaking as a Board Certified Health Educator, with numerous certifications in nutrition-Whether it’s a “magic pill” from the FDA approved culprits, or from Tom, Dick, and Harry’s Laboratory I refuse to pay ANY attention to the MLM products they market, since Tupperware.
The people who do everything else wrong will never erase the damage done by taking a pill. Unfortunately, there’ll always be people who fall for the newest snake oil salesman in town, but they really need to get EDUCATED, not induced to throw more money away on a dream.
To reject a product because of the way it is marketed is foolish. All products should be judged on their own merits. Would knowing that Protandim was once marketed through retail stores such as GNC make it more credible to you?
Not true. MLM is an extremely inefficient business model which practically necessitates exorbitant markups. However, this is not the only basis for discounting Protandim — there are at least 20 good reasons. And no, if it were once sold at GNC it would make absolutely no difference. It’s still a dog of a product.
If network marketing necessitates exorbitant markups, why is Protandim available to Preferred Customers (those who have it shipped each month automatically) get it for $10 less than what it was sold at retail in stores? Any type of marketing involves markups, the difference is in who gets a piece of the action.
In MLM distributors get much of it, while in retail the stores and advertising agencies get that portion. What is the difference? Also, if network marketing was so bad a business model, why do such business authorities as Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, and Robert Kiyosaki endorse it? Lifevantage was losing money when they sold Protandim in stores; now it is making a nice profit. That doesn’t sound “inefficient” to me!
As for calling Protandim a “dog”, do you have any scientific studies which show that it doesn’t work as claimed? There are already a dozen valid, peer-reviewed, published ones which say it does. Who are you, with your limited scientific background and knowledge, to say that all those studies are worthless?
Greg B said: “If network marketing necessitates exorbitant markups, why is Protandim available to Preferred Customers (those who have it shipped each month automatically) get it for $10 less than what it was sold at retail in stores?”
Do you have evidence indicating the price Protandim sold for when, allegedly, it was available in retail stores? If the answer is no, then your question is simply a straw man argument. The exorbitant markups in MLM are well documented. I’m not saying anything new. When as the last time you saw a bottle of juice selling for $50 at a supermarket?
Greg B said: “Any type of marketing involves markups, the difference is in who gets a piece of the action. In MLM distributors get much of it, while in retail the stores and advertising agencies get that portion. What is the difference?”
Jeez man, if you’re curious to really know the difference, there’s no shortage of materials on the internet that explain it. Essentially, in MLM, the distribution of revenue is profoundly inequitable – no comparison with retail – hence the designation – “pyramid selling”. MLM distributors get the worst deal imaginable. Consistently less than even the lowliest fry cook at McDs. In fact, for most, it’s a net loss.
Greg B: “Also, if network marketing was so bad a business model, why do such business authorities as Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, and Robert Kiyosaki endorse it? Lifevantage was losing money when they sold Protandim in stores; now it is making a nice profit. That doesn’t sound “inefficient” to me!”
That’s from page 1 of the MLM Denialist’s Handbook. Let’s flip the script and ask, if MLM is so great why is it that it is only used by a very tiny percentage of companies in America, most of which are from Utah and are engaged in selling snakeoil (like Protandim) to suckers?
Aside from that, your story reveals that MLMs sell products for which there is no real market; that’s why they fail as retail products but succeed only when they are used as the price of admission to participate in a pyramid scheme, like LifeVantage.
Greg B: “As for calling Protandim a “dog”, do you have any scientific studies which show that it doesn’t work as claimed? There are already a dozen valid, peer-reviewed, published ones which say it does.”
They don’t really claim that it does much; at least not in public – in private though, they’ll tell you it cures cancer; and that’s part of the problem. But as a matter of fact, yes, there’s at least one published study – the only properly designed clinical trial to date — that showed that Protandim does not do what it is claimed to do. It had no antioxidant effect whatsoever and got beat by a placebo.
Burnham EL, McCord JM, Bose S, Brown LA, House R, Moss M, Gaydos J. Protandim does not influence alveolar epithelial permeability or intrapulmonary oxidative stress in human subjects with alcohol use disorders. Am J Physiol Lung Cell Mol Physiol. 2012 Apr 1;302(7):L688-99.
Greg B said: “Who are you, with your limited scientific background and knowledge, to say that all those studies are worthless?”
I don’t have to be “anyone”. You can call me the lowly janitor for all I care. That won’t change the fact that I know infinitely more about the subject than you could ever know in 10 lifetimes. Good enough?
V–“Do you have evidence indicating the price Protandim sold for when, allegedly, it was available in retail stores?”
G–What sort of “evidence” do you want? From 2005, when Protandim first came out, until 2009, when LV went to network marketing, Protandim was sold retail in places like GNC, for $50 per bottle. Sales were poor, because it works differently than other anti-oxidant products, and has to be explained to be appreciated, and a bottle on a shelf can’t explain itself. The clerks in the stores knew little about it, and had no incentive to push it.
V–“When as the last time you saw a bottle of juice selling for $50 at a supermarket?”
G–Protandim is not a bottle of juice. Yes, much of the stuff sold via MLM is overpriced versions of what can be had in stores, but there in nothing in any store that works like, or as effectively, as Protandim.
V–“…if MLM is so great why is it that it is only used by a very tiny percentage of companies in America…?
G–No business model can work all the time, with all products. Companies try what they think will work. So far network marketing is working for Protandim. Besides, there are a growing number of companies which are trying the MLM method–some will succeed, some will fail.
V–“Aside from that, your story reveals that MLMs sell products for which there is no real market; that’s why they fail as retail products but succeed only when they are used as the price of admission to participate in a pyramid scheme, like LifeVantage.”
G–Protandim is having to create its own market, because it deals with a problem most people don’t know they have, and it does it in a way that is different than how all other products in this area work. Thus the use of network marketing–it is more effective to get the word out this way than to spend millions on ad campaigns, and with NM more people than just the ad agency get a piece of the action. As for LifeVantage being a pyramid scheme, it does not even fit the definition of a pyramid scheme–we have legitimate products, we are not just passing money around, and it is not necessary to become a distributor to buy and use our products. We have many more who are just customers than we have distributors. Also, do pyramid scheme companies get their stock listed on NASDAQ? Of course not! LV had to pass some serious scrutiny before being allowed to list on that exchange.
V–“They don’t really claim that it does much; at least not in public – in private though, they’ll tell you it cures cancer; and that’s part of the problem.”
G–The only claim LV makes about Protandim is that it significantly lowers Oxidative Stress. That is ALL we claim. We make no claims that it cures cancer, or any other disease. If any distributor said that it does, he was non-compliant, and in violation of his distributor agreement. If you know of any distributor who has made unsupported claims, please inform LV corporate headquarters, so that appropriate action can be taken.
V–“But as a matter of fact, yes, there’s at least one published study – the only properly designed clinical trial to date — that showed that Protandim does not do what it is claimed to do. It had no antioxidant effect whatsoever and got beat by a placebo.”
G–You are referring to the alcoholic study, which only showed that, in persons with a certain alcohol-related condition, Protandim does not lower Oxidative Stress after seven days. To extrapolate from that to say that it doesn’t lower OS for anybody after any amount of time is to jump to an unwarranted conclusion. What do you do with all the other studies, which give positive results? They were valid, else they would not have passed the peer-review process and been published in medical journals. The bulk of the evidence in so far says that Protandim works as claimed.
V–“I don’t have to be “anyone”. You can call me the lowly janitor for all I care. That won’t change the fact that I know infinitely more about the subject than you could ever know in 10 lifetimes. Good enough?”
G–Obviously humbleness is not one of your virtues. As for knowing more than me about this, all you have done is spout ignorance. LifeVantage is a legitimate company, with legitimate products, using a legitimate marketing method. Is it perfect? No, but then neither is any other company.
G–(to everyone else reading this discussion) I realize that with Vogel I am doing little more than casting my pearls before swine, so to speak, as he has some irrational problem with LV and Protandim, and refuses to see this for what it is, but since I know that his rantings could negatively influence others I felt it necessary to respond to him on this forum. I thank Joe for allowing me to do so.
Vogel, you have made reference to the one study where Protandim did not have a positive effect, and you have implied that Dr McCord’s name on most of the other studies means that he had a conflict of interest and somehow falsified the results of those tests to make them come out good. But did you notice that Dr McCord’s name is on the negative study also?
Why did he not falsify that one, or at least just not submit it for publication? Is it not because he is a scientist of integrity, not the snake-oil peddler you try to make him out to be? He knows that whatever is discovered about Protandim needs to be made known, good or bad. That he is willing to have the negative study published tells me that he can be trusted about the positive studies.
Greg, while Phil makes a good point about research from Al Gore and global warming/climate change, I personally have no problems with research conducted and supported by LV if the research is good, peer reviewed and can be replicated by others. I like companies that support research on their products. They put their money were their mouth is. I say this for all supplements.
Joe-
Thank you for your thoughtful research on the subject. I am equally disturbed by the lack of human testing. It has been what- 7 years since the video with ABC, and no known follow-up has been done. They have had their product on the market for enough time to have independent laboratory tests done to “verify” their claims. I would suspect that they have, and have not turned out as planned or surely they would be shouting this from the mountaintop.
Phil, you’re quite welcome! I’d imagine that’s possible or nobody is doing the needed research? I’m also surprised that Primetime Live has not readdressed the Protandim issue considering how much attention it is getting online.
Steve jobs death is explained fairly well by john McDougal . Keep up the good work joe.
Ken thanks, yes very sad about Steve Jobs. I’ve wondered if the traits that made Steve who he was, contributed to his passing by stopping him from getting the proper medical treatments he needed. We will never know for sure but he was a visionary to be sure.
Susan,
We will have to agree to disagree. I see no reason to believe in “Woo” when scientific studies can prove or disprove whether a product or practice is effective. Lifevantage is the company claiming that their product is “rooted in science,” and that they are a “science based company.” They even say that science is what sets them apart from other supplement companies. Just look at their website.
This blog is about educating people and helping them research whether the scientific evidence supports the claims being about Protandim. It is here to help people do their homework.
If someone believes Gummy Bears makes them feel better or cures their disease, it doesn’t mean that Gummy Bears is validated as a treatment…..no matter how many people jump on the bandwagon, or how many years they do so.
This is timely.
Are multivitamins a waste of money? Editorial in medical journal says yes
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/health/multivitamins-studies/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
“Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”
Annals of Internal Medicine
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleID=1789253
Interesting article, but I would remind you that Protandim is not a vitamin, and does not work like a vitamin. It is a Nrf2 activator.
At least multivitamins have had extensive research done to show that it is unlikely that they have any wellness benefit whereas Protandim has had virtually none.
All of the published research so far, save one inconclusive study, indicates that Protandim does exactly what it is claimed to do–lower Oxidative Stress. That other studies say that vitamins do not does not mean that Protandim does not either.
m.naturalnews.com/news/043306_multivitamins_mainstream_media_nutritional_supplements.html
It’s sad that Mike Adams writes these worthless malevolent screeds. He didn’t address a single detail of the criticism that was leveled against supplements and the industry. He merely presented conspiracy theories and ranted about how much money pharmaceutical companies make; seemingly unaware of the fact that Pharma companies make some of the most popular brands of multivitamins on the market today.
Hate to say it, but one would have to be a real simpleton (and an angry one to boot) to swallow of any of what Adams is dishing out.
For those who dont know, Mike Adams runs the Natural News website. Here is the Wikipedia page for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaturalNews
I also dont feel Natural News is unbiased. For example, at the end of the article Cory linked to, it is said, “Supplement death toll in 2009 was zero, zip, nada.” Well that may be true for 2009 but what about the other years? Ive previously written about a very sad case where a personal trainer recommended a supplement that killed a woman back in 1999 http://www.joe-cannon.com/personal-trainer-recommend-supplements-ephedr/
More recently, here is a case of the death of a young girl who was given DMAA: http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/205326-scappoose-girl-might-be-first-us-victim-of-deadly-drug.
Protandim wont do anything bad like this to people so those who take it dont have to worry.
How can anyone really know that the death toll from supplements is zero for any given year? Who knows how many people may have died from taking supplements or seeking alternative treatments for health issues instead of using proven medical treatments? Steve Jobs comes to mind, but no one tracks this kind of thing. We also don’t know how many people tried “natural” cures but eventually had to be saved with medical intervention.
As far as Protandim is concerned….no one knows what harm it could be causing IF it does what it claims to do? No one is tracking Protandim consumers to determine what risks there might be. It has been pointed out more than once that mopping up free radicals may do more harm than good.
Lisa, actually this blog is about supplements in general and this particular post was about Protandim. My comments about supplements and Protandim apply to the respective industries. I do have a medical background and am actively involved in this area.
I respect your opinion and thank you for your insight and your response, but respectfully disagree with your conclusions. The clinical trials, testing procedures and side effects of prescription drugs are very different than they used to be. Everyone has a personal choice to make about what they put in their bodies.
The people who use Protandim or other supplements have made a choice and, we can only assume they have done their homework to understand what is proven and what is not. But, to suggest that those who have taken the supplement and had good results should deny the positive effects simply because no one showed them the scientific proof.
The roots of most discovery start with a gut feeling or premise and many brilliant minds were considered crazy for their persistence. Whether we are looking at penicillin, the shape of the earth or human anatomy, the curiosity and persistence of human beings is what drives us to discover new ways to heal, help and manage our world and our bodies.
To the point of drug interactions, I would say that we have to take a broader view. Remember that all manner of supplements, drugs, herbs and other things we ingest for healing purposes can have side effects. It is always wise to understand those potential side effects and contraindications of a particular substance before you take anything but remember that every prescription drug has a long list of potential side effects and that the pharma company is not obligated to provide a list of every side effect (only those that cross a certain threshold in terms of the percentage of people who experienced a particular symptom during clinical trials), so you have no way of knowing whether a symptom is coming from something else or from a side effect that isn’t considered important enough to publish on the drug collaterals.
SO…when we eat a certain food, take a supplement or vitamin or herb we are also at risk of experiencing some side effect but that doesn’t mean it is any more dangerous or trustworthy than any other substance we put in our bodies.
Most holistic practitioners and doctors and nutritionists will suggest adding one thing at a time so you reduce the variables and that makes it easier to know exactly what you are reacting to and stop taking something that may be a problem.
Well, at least the side effects and drug interactions are known about pharmaceuticals, whereas supplements are a crap shoot. Another thing to consider is that a drug actually has proven benefits, and the risk of side effects is weighed against the benefits.
Protandim has no proven health benefit, so why spend the money on unproven “medicine” which may have side effects or interfere with medications? That money could be spent on better quality food, or an exercise class instead of lining the pockets of the top 120 snake oil distributors at Lifevantage.
I am not arguing for or against Protandim. I am saying that the side effects and problems with prescription drugs are too numerous to mention. Sometimes, a prescription drug is the best option you have for a particular problem but we are now a society of pill popping people and many of my clients are on 10-12 drugs when they come in to see me (and they are only in their forties). The drug side effects and the interaction between drugs are NOT always clear.
Yes, the companies are obligated to do clinical trials and yes the FDA does review the drug but a) they only have to tell the public about the side effects that occur in a larger percentage of their clinical trials and b) they don’t test these drugs against any and all interaction with other prescription drugs (that would be impossible) so there is no way to know if a unique combination of 2 or more drugs may cause a problem and c) for the most part, prescription drugs do not cure a problem.
To put it another way, they do not make you well. If we are going to say that supplements are not well tested and we don’t know all the side effects, we have to say the same thing about prescription drugs. Just because there is some testing process or some research does not mean it produces enough information or even the right information to tell us whether it is right for us.
To understand and illness, one has to look at lifestyle, nutrition, exercise, genetic predisposition, injuries and trauma and many other factors and then establish a well-rounded plan to improve health and life across the board. In most cases, taking a pill to mask pain or some other symptom of imbalance does not cure an illness.
I am not saying you should NEVER consider taking a prescription drug. I am saying that achieving and sustaining wellness should be the goal. Whether you choose to take prescription drugs, vitamins, supplements, Protandim, or gummy bears, is your choice. Just be sure you are educated.
Well, the whole point of this blog is to discuss Protandim and whether there is enough scientific evidence to support any of the claims being made about it. The answer to that is no.
“If we are going to say that supplements are not well tested and we don’t know all the side effects, we have to say the same thing about prescription drugs.”
No, we don’t. To put the level of testing drugs go through on par with supplements is absurd.
Here is the opinion of Aaron Emmel, a board certified pharmacist, on Protandim. Below is a quote regarding the possibility of drug interactions. Be sure to read the comment section too…..
http://themedicineguy.com/protandim-life-extender-or-money-waster/
“As far as drug interactions go, once again there are no studies to provide any guidance. All of the substances in Protandim have been reported to cause numerous drug interactions, so the potential is huge. Their website downplays this, which is ridiculous. This list of potential interactions is very long, so if you are curious about a drug you are taking click my contact link or just comment on this post.”
I have read Medicineguy’s article, and he is confused about an important point. He mentions that sometimes anti-oxidants can cause more harm that good. That is true, however, for DIRECT anti-oxidants, such as vitamins, which add anti-oxidant molecules to the body from outside. But Protandim is an INDIRECT anti-oxidant, in that it stimulates the body to produce more of its own anti-oxidant enzymes. These enzymes are far less likely to cause harm than direct anti-oxidants. Medicineguy’s concern here is misplaced.
Greg B.,
You say Medicindguy is confused and that indirect “enzymes are far less likely to cause harm than direct anti-oxidants. Medicineguy’s concern here is misplaced.”
Where are the studies on that? Or is that just an assumption, or blind faith in the same people who told you the study on high altitude sickness was done on soldiers?
I don’t think Medicineguy is confused about antioxidants or the claim that Protandim supposedly stimulates the body to produce more antioxidants:
“There is no direct evidence in humans that Protandim provides any health benefit. Proponents of Protandim are presuming that because laboratory studies suggest it increases anti-oxidant activity, that this conveys a health benefit. As previously stated, there is no direct evidence that this would be the case either.”
Simple common sense will tell you that if your cells are operating as they were designed to, which includes producing enough anti-oxidant enzymes to keep Oxidative Stress at bay, your body will not be damaged by that. That is all Protandim does–enable your cells to do what they are supposed to do in this area by activating Nrf2.
Greg,
Thanks for reading my blog post. There is no confusion about my comments. They are based on an evaluation of scientific literature. Whether or not the meta-analysis that show an increased mortality with certain substances are due to the anti-oxidant properties or other inert attributes of those substances is unknown. However, I do not know of any valid research that substantiates your comments. Please share, because you surely wouldn’t assume that I am mistaken without evidence to the contrary…
TMG
I recognize the value of scientific research and recognize that the only way we learned that the world was round and found out that Penicillin fights infection was by research but someone had to have the idea to begin the process.
I have a background in western medicine and have spent numerous years in holistic practice helping people sort through diet, exercise and pharmaceutical drugs to find balance in their health. When it comes to studies done to support FDA approval, the ‘scientific’ approach has been compromised beyond question.
It used to take years of clinical trials to approve a drug. Now we release new drugs every week and count on the wide release to be our true clinical trial. Doctors are wooed by big pharma and prescribe these new drugs to millions of patients and we THEN find out what the side effects really are!
I am not suggesting that the makers of Prodantim should abandon their responsibilities for research and proof of effects but I am saying that it is hard to criticize them when we live in a world of corporate control that wants to keep people sick in order to make money be selling them expensive tests and prescribing drugs.
I recently heard about Protandim from a chiropractor who started taking the supplement and experienced a significant reduction in her blood pressure after two weeks. While the scientific community wants research and controlled studies to ‘prove’ results, we have to be careful not to discount the results achieved by people who tried it and who made no other significant changes in their lives that might explain the improvement.
Patients are willing to poison their systems with chemo and radiation for a 3% better chance of survival than doing NOTHING to treat their cancer but I haven’t heard any doctors telling their patients about THIS research because it doesn’t help them convince a patient to endure the treatment.
We need to strike a balance between what Eastern wellness-related disciplines like traditional Chinese medicine (practitioners of TCM have used these types of herbs for thousands of years) and Western medicine which insists on reinventing illness and corresponding treatments for the sake of making money.
It’s a bit disingenuous of us to denigrate these pyramid marketing schemes when the accepted practices of big pharma and our current medical community are condoned. It’s all snake oil and carpet bagging in some form! Perhaps the herbs are helping people and that is what we should focus on. If bringing science to bear on this process will help people to get what they need in an acceptable form, so be it but at the end of the day, the person who lives on a mountain top and eats raw food grown by hand might tell you it helped them and they have no ‘research’ to prove their methods or their beliefs!
Susan, I think one thing we can all agree on is, its about prevention.
SusanO:
You say: ” We need to strike a balance between what Eastern wellness-related disciplines like traditional Chinese medicine (practitioners of TCM have used these types of herbs for thousands of years) and Western medicine which insists on reinventing illness and corresponding treatments for the sake of making money.”
Just because something has been used for thousands of years doesn’t mean it is effective or the best method of treatment. Bloodletting was very popular for centuries too.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-is-traditional-chinese-medicine/
As far as making money, you do realize that alternative medicine is a 34 billion dollar industry, right? It’s not a bunch of altruistic hippies giving out free “cures.” I see you have your own business selling all kinds of products…..crystals, stones, etc.
For those who think that alternative medicine is harmless, you need to take into consideration that trying unproven therapies has delayed patients from getting proven treatments, which resulted in their deaths. That isn’t the only danger either:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/18/book-raises-alarms-about-alternative-medicine/2429385/
Dr. Paul Offit: “Do You Believe in Magic? The Sense and Nonsense of Alternative Medicine”:
“Although conventional therapies can be disappointing, alternative therapies shouldn’t be given a free pass…. All therapies should be held to the same high standard of proof; otherwise we’ll continue to be hoodwinked by healers who ask us to believe in them rather than in the science that fails to support their claims. And it’ll happen when we’re most vulnerable, most willing to spend whatever it takes for the promise of a cure.”
“The possibility of harm caused by natural products … isn’t theoretical. Blue cohosh can cause heart failure; nutmeg can cause hallucinations; comfrey, kava, chaparral, Crotalaria, Senecio, jin bu huan, Usnea lichen, and valerian can cause hepatitis; monkshood and plantain can cause heart arrhythmias; wormwood can cause seizures; stevia leaves can decrease fertility; concentrated green tea extracts can damage the liver; milkweed seed oil and bitter orange (Citrus aurantium) can cause heart damage; thujone can cause neurological damage; and concentrated garlic can cause bleeding….And it’s not just the supplements themselves that might be harmful, but what’s contaminating them. In 2004, researchers at Harvard Medical School tested Indian (Ayurvedic) remedies obtained from shops near Boston’s City Hall. They found that 20 percent contained potentially harmful levels of lead, mercury, and arsenic….”
“These problems aren’t rare. Between 1983 and 2004, poison-control centers in the United States received 1.3 million reports of adverse reactions to vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements, of which 175,268 required treatment in hospitals and 139 resulted in death. In 2012, the FDA [Food and Drug Administration] estimated that approximately 50,000 adverse reactions to supplements occurred every year.”
Since you are critical of the drug approval process (and no, a drug does not get approved in a weeks time), you should be appalled that supplements and alternative therapies don’t go through ANY approval process.
Yes, every business and person has to make a living. That was not my point. I worked in the Western medical community and I understand the value of good diagnostics and treatment. My point was that, like many other things in our culture today, much of the Western medical approach has given way formulaic money-making focus. It is true that holistic practitioners are also, in some cases, guilty of this (ala James Arthur Ray).
There is no such thing as a pristine profession. When I talk about TCM, I am saying that these practices are 5000 years old and many have been proven thousands of times over. But, the Western culture did not invent them so they are leery of them. Having supplements approved by the FDA doesn’t mean they are safe. There are hundreds of thousands of examples of reactions to prescription drugs in this country alone and many deaths attributed to these drugs. That doesn’t mean every drug is bad for every patient.
I know and respect many scientists and many doctors and nurses and have no intention of trashing an entire industry. I am simply saying that the trends are there and that the American model of healthcare is not designed to help a patient achieve and sustain wellness. If we want to prove or disprove something we believe we can find facts to support that belief. In the end, we all have to do what is right for us (and when we are treating clients or patients) what we feel is right for our patients.
Susan O,
Thanks for your refreshing attitude. I wish more in our healthcare industry were level headed like you.
Godspeed, Little Sister,
Bad Joe
Are you a distributor, or a PC? If the former, you are not allowed to resell on Amazon, or by any other online means. You are only allowed to sell through your mylifevantage website. If you continue you will have your distributorship taken away.
If you are a PC, since you are not officially in business, you do not legally get a tax write-off for selling below cost, so you are cheating on your taxes. In either case, you are stealing from other LV distributors who are doing it the right way and following the rules. SHAME ON YOU!