Updated 6/6/24. Carnivora is a health supplement derived from the carnivorous Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) that you may have seen advertised online or heard of during radio commercials (such as Coast to Coast AM with George Noory). Carnivora is said to help the immune system function better, or in the words of one YouTube video I saw, “wakes up the immune system and makes it dominant.” Does Carnivora work?” is the question everybody asks me. I've been curious about this product since I first heard the Coast to Coast AM radio commercial, so in this Carnivora review, I will share what I found when I looked at the research. Let's see what we can discover.
Who Makes Carnivora?
The company is called Carnivora Research International its website is Carnivora.com. The Contact Us page of the Carnivora.com website actually lists the emails of a variety of people within the Carnivora organization ―even the owner/CEO of the company, Richard Ostrow.
That level of transparency is rare in the supplement world, and I actually appreciated seeing this. There is no official address for the Carnivora company. There is, however a PO Box address:
- PO Box 1035 Weston CT 06883-0035
This is the same address listed on the BBB file for Carnivora also.
To contact Carnivora call 866 836 8735.
I was curious where Carnivora was made. I was unable to find this answer.
Carnivora Research International is a Better Business Bureau accredited company since 2009. It had a rating of “A+” when this review was updated. The company has been in business since 1981. See the BBB file updates and more 
Carnivora Research
On the Science of Carnivora page of the product website, there are links to many studies that serve as a testament to the benefits of Carnivora. Most of the links were clickable and linked directly to published peer-reviewed studies. I liked that. I looked at all of the studies listed on the Science of Carnivora page and, after which came to these conclusions:
1. The word “Carnivora” does not appear in most of the studies listed
2. Most of the studies listed are test-tube or mouse studies
This means most of the research is not on the supplement
Many of the studies make references to compounds ―such as something called Plumbagin ―but studies of individual/isolated ingredients (in test tubes or lab animals) are not the same thing as human studies on Carnivora itself.
After looking at the evidence presented on the product website, my question is:
American Cancer Society
American Cancer Society states that in 1985, a German oncologist named Helmut Keller who invented Carnivora in the 1970s (and who holds the patent on it) did a study involving 210 people with various types of cancer. Dr. Keller noted that 56% of people treated with the Carnivora extract experienced either remission or stabilization of their tumors. That's really impressive, but the ACS said the study has not been replicated.
I was not able to locate this study.
Why didn't Dr. Keller replicate his findings?
To be fair, it is disappointing that the American Cancer Society themselves did not attempt to replicate this study. The ACS did say the study was published, so I assume they have read it.
If anyone can show me the published study of Dr. Keller and Carnivora, I'll be happy to update this review.
A study published in 2013 reviews various compounds in Venus flytrap as they relate to cancer. This study covers several mouse and tube research investigations on Venus flytrap compounds. It does not mention human studies. The study does not mention Carnivora by name.
Other Carnivora Research
After writing my review, I was contacted by an information specialist at Carnivora, the conversation of which you can read in the comments below. The person informed me that there was additional research on Carnivora performed in Europe 25 years ago. I was told this research was prohibited in the US. I was also told that to read that information, I would have to provide an email address that was not based in either the US or Canada.
It was an odd request. However, I was intrigued by the possibility that additional research existed, so I complied and received the information a few days later. Below is a summary of the documents I received, along with my thoughts on that information.
1. President Regan and Carnivora. I was sent what appears to be, a small page out of a book, that discusses President Regan's use of Carnivora to treat polyps. If this is a book excerpt, there is no citation as to what that book is. In the January 2011 issue of Dr. Rowen's Second Opinion Newsletter (see below for more info), Dr. Rowen says that President Regan “used Carnivora with success to keep malignant polyps from returning in 1985.”
But, according to the website DrZebra.com, President Regan had his polyps surgically removed in 1987. If they were successfully treated by Carnivora in 1985, why did he have surgery to remove the polyps in 1987? Regardless of who is right on this issue, this book excerpt is not a published peer-reviewed study.
2. German Cancer Therapies: Natural and Conventional Medicines that Offer Hope and Healing. This is a book by Dr. Morton Walker, a freelance writer and retired podiatrist, and was published in 2003. I mentioned Dr. Walker in the section about Carnivora and HIV, so see that section also. Chapters 3, 4 
and 5 of that book discusses Carnivora. That said, book chapters sent to me did not contain any peer-reviewed studies to substantiate the claims made in these chapters. As such, we can't tell anything about them.
Remember, I had to provide a non-USA-based email address to receive all of the information discussed in this section. I don’t see why I had to do this because this book is available on Amazon.
3. Comments of Dr. Daniel Kinner, OMD, L.Ac. On His Personal Clinical Experience Using Carnivora, Venus Flytrap Extract. This appears to be a letter dated March 8, 2000, from Dr. Kinner to Carnivora Research International. According to his website, DanKennerresearch.com, Dr. Kinner holds a Ph.D. in Naturopathic Medical Science and is an Oriental Medical Doctor (OMD). He is also a licensed acupuncturist (L.Ac).
In the letter, Dr. Kinner speaks of the experiences of his patients who used Carnivora. All the experiences were positive. But, since this is just a letter, it is not a published peer-reviewed study and amounts to just a testimonial, in my view.
4. The Townsend Letter for Doctors. This appears to be an alternative medicine newsletter (published in the US) and the issue that was sent to me is dated May 1992. I am not sure who wrote this article. There is a reference circled in the document, which I imagine is proof of what is stated in the newsletter. The reference circled is titled:
Kreher B, “Structure elucidation of plumbagin-analagues from Dionaca Muscipula and their immunomodulating activities in vitro and in vivo. International Symposium: Molecular Recognition, Sopron, Hungry, August 24-27, 1988.”
From the title, it appears this citation represents a study that was presented at a science convention. While presenting information is good in that it helps disseminate information to the scientific community, it does not mean that the information has gone through the peer-review process.
Regardless, this is not a human study. I was not sent any peer-reviewed studies of this information either, so it appears that this investigation was never peer-reviewed. Why was this information never published in a medical journal?
5. Dr. Robert Rowen's Second Opinion Newsletter, dated August 2004. This is just a newsletter where a doctor discusses what he knows and has observed about Carnivora. It also mentions Dr. Kenner (see point #3). Unfortunately, there are no peer-reviewed references in the attached newsletter either.
6. Dr. Robert Rowen's Second Opinion Newsletter, dated July 2009. In this issue of the newsletter, Carnivora is also discussed but it doesn’t say anything new. It just appears to be a rehash of Ronald Reagan and other people who said they were helped by Carnivora.
7. Dr. Robert Rowen's Second Opinion Newsletter. This newsletter is dated January 2011. Again, this is just a newsletter.
8. Molecular Recognition: Carnivora a New Discovery. This document is dated 1988. In the email I received, I was told that this is a clinical study. But, there is no author and no citation about where this is published. I don’t know if “Molecular Recognition” is the title of a journal or a chapter in a book or a private, internal document. This does not look like any published peer-reviewed study I've ever seen.
9. Comparison of lymphocytes subpopulation in various cancer therapies. This document is said to be a European clinical study, however it is not peer-reviewed and does not appear to be published in any medical journal. While it has a couple of graphs, the document appears for the part, to be a letter dated February 13, 1995, written by someone (who, I don’t know) to Dr. Helmut Keller.
There were other documents sent to me also that were said to be “European studies” however they don’t appear to be published in any medical journal.
Unfortunately, none of the documents sent to me are to the level that I would accept as “proof”, which is published, peer-reviewed research.
Carnivora and Dr. C. Joe Schneller
One YouTube video about Carnivora features Dr. C. Joe Schneller who said he is doing a study of how 3 capsules a day of Carnivora “wakes up the immune system and makes it dominant.”
The video was uploaded on June 16, 2011, but it appears to not yet be completed or published, as it is not listed on the Carnivora website or listed in the National Library of Medicine. Likewise, when I did a Google search for:
“Dr. Schneller Carnivora study,”
No study was revealed. I will update this review with his study and its results if it gets published.
Let's next look at some of the major reasons people might be interested in Carnivora and attempt to find clinical studies for those uses. That way, those interested in specific issues can get an idea of whether Carnivora might be right for them.
Carnivora and The Immune System
Carnivora is primarily marketed as something that can improve/modulate the immune system. Ironically, when I searched the National Library of Medicine for “Carnivora” no relevant studies showed up. So, I searched the National Library of Medicine for these specific words to see if there were any research:
- Venus flytrap immune
- Venus flytrap immunity
- Venus flytrap immune system
- Venus flytrap phagocytosis (refers to how some immune cells work)
- Venus flytrap antibody
- Venus flytrap B cell (B cells are a type of immune cell)
- Venus flytrap T cell (T cells are a type of immune cell)
- Dionaea Muscipula immune
- Dionaea Muscipula immune system
- Dionaea Muscipula immunity
- Dionaea Muscipula phagocytosis
- Dionaea Muscipula antibody
- Dionaea Muscipula B cell
- Dionaea Muscipula T cell
No studies showed up for any of these search terms.
This may mean Venus flytrap/ Dionaea Muscipula might not have been specifically studied for its effects on how it improves the immune system.
So why is it being marketed to boost immunity?
One of the compounds in the Venus flytrap is called Plumbagin. Some websites even claim that Plumbagin is the active ingredient in Carnivora.
Plumbagin does have some research. For example, Plumbagin has been studied for its possible anti-cancer effects. When I searched the National Library of Medicine for:
“Plumbagin immune” (click the link to see the studies) I saw a lot of studies, but most of them were conducted in test tubes or used lab mice.
What I didn't see was a study showing that Plumbagin (oral or injected) prevented the flu or improved arthritis symptoms ―or improved any other immune system-related condition ―in humans.
Carnivora and AIDS
Since Carnivora is touted to improve the immune system, a logical question would be Does it help HIV/AIDS? On one website that discusses this topic, a 1994 magazine article titled, The Carnivora Cure for Cancer, AIDS and Other Pathologies” published in Immune Perspectives, is mentioned. In this article, it's said that Carnivora caused the ” total elimination of the HIV virus.”
I tried to locate this article but I could not find it.
Additionally, I was not able to find a peer-reviewed journal called “Immune Perspectives” either. In fact, I could not find ANY magazine called “Immune Perspectives.”
The author of this article was Dr. Morton Walker, whose website is DrMortonWalker.com. I believe this is the doctor associated with the Immune Perspectives article. However, when I searched his site for the article it does not appear there either.
I then searched the National Library of Medicine for these words:
- Venus flytrap AIDS
- Venus flytrap HIV
- Dionaea Muscipula AIDS
- Dionaea Muscipula HIV
This search revealed no studies either.
I did locate a 2002 study titled Inhibitory effects of quinones on RNase H activity associated with HIV-1 reverse transcriptase that noted that Plumbagin (one of the compounds in Venus flytrap, as well as other plants) inhibited an enzyme that is needed for HIV to replicate. While this is interesting, the study was over a decade ago and was basically just a test-tube study.
Because of the lack of published research on this topic, I am unfortunately forced to conclude for the moment that there is no good proof that Carnivora or Venus flytrap extracts improve immune function in those with HIV/AIDS.
Some say black seeds can cure HIV. Here is a video I created about that research
Carnivora and Cancer
Can this supplement help people with cancer? I searched the National Library of Medicine for “Carnivora Cancer” but didn’t see any studies that specifically investigated Carnivora―itself― for how it might help cancer.
This is ironic because many websites relate the story of how former President Ronald Reagan used Carnivora to prevent cancer. Mr. Reagan still had part of his colon removed because of colon cancer. So, if he did use Carnivora, how significant of an effect did it have on his cancer?
Regardless, some of the compounds (such as Plumbagin) in Venus flytrap have been studied for how they might affect cell growth. But, in these studies, Plumbagin is used as an isolated compound (which is different than Carnivora which contains a variety of compounds). Also, most research on Plumbagin appears to be in the form of test-tube/Petri dish studies or lab animal studies.
I'm not aware of any studies in humans showing that Plumbagin cures cancer or slows cancer growth.
Also, how much Plumbagin is in Carnivora? I don’t know, but either way, it's irrelevant at this point because of the lack of published studies on humans.
For a more in-depth discussion, see this 2013 review titled Venus Flytrap (Dionaea muscipula Solander ex Ellis) Contains Powerful Compounds that Prevent and Cure Cancer. When I read this study, I noticed that it never mentions the name Carnivora or the name of Dr. Helmut Keller, the creator of Carnivora.
Carnivora and Arthritis
I did a Google search for “Carnivora and arthritis” and noticed that some websites mention that Carnivora has been used in Germany as a treatment for arthritis. But, when I looked at the various websites that discuss this issue, none that I saw included any studies to substantiate that Carnivora helps arthritis. They show no proof.
Likewise, I could not find any evidence when I searched the National Library of Medicine either. Maybe it helps or maybe it doesn’t but until studies are published, I believe the idea of Carnivora helping arthritis is open to speculation.
What About GI Issues?
Proof that the supplement improves digestion or helps people with intestinal problems could not be located.
Carnivora and Lupus
I searched the National Library of Medicine for these words:
- Carnivora lupus
- Dionaea Muscipula lupus
- Venus flytrap lupus
- Plumbagin lupus
No studies showed up. Unfortunately, it appears that there is no good proof, as yet, to determine if Carnivora helps lupus.
Carnivora and Fibromyalgia
Some websites discuss Carnivora as a possible treatment for fibromyalgia pain, but those sites provide no good proof of this. Likewise, when clinical databases were searched, no proof could be located.
Carnivora and Lyme Disease
Various websites discuss that the supplement might help Lyme disease but when proof of this cant' be located. Until that research is conducted, it's impossible to say if it helps or doesn’t.
Carnivora and Alzheimer's
Is there any proof this supplement helps dementia? Evidence cannot be located. I can't find any good proof that the Carnivora improves memory or helps people with dementia, including Alzheimer's disease.
Carnivora and Cats
Some clinical evidence suggests Carnivora can help cats with Feline Herpes Virus 1 (FHV-1), a viral infection that can cause respiratory problems in cats. Researchers in 2016 published titled Effects of Administration of Carnivora on Clinical Signs in Cats After Repeat Challenge with Feline Herpesvirus 1 (click to read pdf).
This investigation appeared to show cats treated with Carnivora had fewer upper respiratory symptoms than cats treated with a placebo. Here is a summary of the study and the results:
Study Summary
- The study involved 16 young adult cats (2 years of age).
- All the cats had FHV-1 for one year before the study.
- The cats were randomly split into a group that took Carnivora for or a placebo for 56 days.
- After treatment, all cats were exposed to the FHV-1 virus.
Study Results
- Cats treated with Carnivora were observed to have fewer upper respiratory tract symptoms than the cats that received the placebo.
Interestingly, the researchers also noted that “no clinically significant differences when comparing serum biochemical values from the Carnivora treated cats before and after treatment.” If I understand this correctly, it seems even though Carnivora appeared to reduce FHV-1 symptoms, it did not kill the virus.
The study does not specifically mention any effect on the immune system cells. That is unfortunate, given the immune-modulating reputation of Carnivora.
The authors state the study was supported by the makers of Carnivora, but that the company did not take any part in the study. That is good. I'm glad they are sponsoring research.
Does It Detox Your Body?
Some websites advocate Carnivora as part of a detox or “cleanse” to rid the body of harmful parasites and waste. These websites, however, give no good proof the supplement does this.
If Carnivora did boost the immune system, then I could understand how an enhanced immune system might be better at killing off bacteria/viruses. But, we will need clinical studies on this topic to know for sure.
Carnivora Side Effects
In healthy people, I believe Carnivora is safe. The Carnivora.com website states “There are no known contraindications using Carnivora with any prescription drugs (or other dietary supplements).” This doesn't mean there aren't any side effects. It just means the company isn't aware of any.
While it probably is safe, here is a list of things to consider when taking this supplement. This list is not complete.
- Speak to your doctor if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. The company also mentions this and specifically says the supplement “is contraindicated for mid to late-term pregnancy.”
- Stop taking at least 2 weeks before having surgery. This is sage advice for all supplements too.
- Start with less than recommended for the first week to see how you respond.
- If you take blood thinner drugs, speak to your doctor/pharmacist. The product website also mentions this although they seem to not like blood thinners at all, calling them “toxic.” I'm not sure I'd go that far. The website also states blood may become too thin if taking combining blood thinner meds with high doses (20+ per administration) of Pure Extract drops.
Doctors in 2014, reported the case of a 30-year-old man with Hodgkin’s lymphoma (a type of cancer) who developed kidney failure after using the supplement for about a year. This seems to be the first case of this ever reported.
The supplement website used to discuss the possibility of a Herxheimer reaction occurring if people use too much too soon. The herxheimer reaction refers to a temporary increase in adverse symptoms. This is said to be the result of the Venus flytrap extract killing the infection. The condition was originally attributed to the treatment of syphilis with antibiotics, but it might occur with other conditions as well.
Amazon Reviews
Looking at Amazon reviews, the supplement had a rating of 4.3 out of 5-star rating with over 1500 ratings. Over 60% gave it a 5-star rating and 14% gave the
supplement a 4 star rating. Most reviews are those who made verified purchases.
How Much Extract Per Capsule?
Each bottle contains 100 capsules. Each capsule has 125 mcg of carnivore extract. The website for the supplement lists 125 mcg, taken three times per day, as the optimal intake for preventive uses.
How Much Does Carnivora Cost?
When I checked the product's website, each bottle, which contained 100 capsules, was $39.95 + shipping. The shipping options are:
- Priority Mail: $8.09
- FexEx 2Day: $28.64
- FedEx Standard Overnight $37.55
This would be in addition to the cost. Here are the available price options:
- 2 bottles: $79.90
- 3 bottles: $107.85
- 4 bottles: 143.80
- 5 bottles: 179.75
- 6 bottles: $215.70
- 7 bottles: $251.65
- 8 bottles: 287.60
- 9 bottles: $323.55
- 10 bottles $359.50
Purchasing 3 or more bottles entitles ou to a $4 discount per bottle. A free bottle is included as a bonus for those who purchase 5 or more bottles.
Each bottle of liquid Carnivora extact is $44.95. Each bottle contains 1 oz (30 ml).
Where To Buy Carnivora
The official company name is Carnivora Research International, and the website is Carnivora.com. It can be purchased directly from the company.
This supplement is not sold in stores like Walmart, CVS, Walmart, Costco, Walgreen's, or CVS. It is sold on Amazon.
Carnivora vs. The Competition
It should come as no surprise that when something gets popular, others will pop up with their own Venus flytrap supplements. There are others out there. However, there is no research comparing the benefits of Carnivora to other Venus flytrap supplements.
To the company's credit, they have sponsored some research on their supplement. That gives them an advantage over other similar venus fly trap supplements.
It's unknown how the supplement compares to other immune boosters such as Dr. Zelenko's Z-Stack vitamin formula or the ever-popular elderberry.
Carnivora Pro & Con
| Pro | Con |
|---|---|
| Very good better business bureau rating | Limited clinical research |
| BBB accredited business | Lots of internet hype |
| company CEO engages with customers |
Research I'd Like To See
1. Randomly give the supplement -or placebo – to 10 people before and after measuring concentrations of various white blood cells. Let's see if anything changes.
2. Give the supplement or a placebo to 10 people with fibromyalgia and measure their pain levels before and after treatment.
3. Randomly give the supplement or placebo to 10 people with arthritis and measure their pain levels before and after treatment.
Each of these questions could be answered in a few months. It wouldn't cost much to do either. Hopefully, I just gave graduate students an idea for a dissertation topic (hint, hint).
Does Carnivora Work?
I don't know if Carnivora works or not because I don’t see human research either way. The research I found supporting one of its main ingredients (plumbagin) appears to be limited to lab animals or test-tube studies. While I remain skeptical, it's probably safe for most people, and I'm intrigued enough to hope future studies are conducted to understand this supplement better.
Hi Joe,
I listen to coast to coast am every night. I am very disappointed in George Noory. Frankly, I am obviously rethinking much of what I have ever heard on his radio program. I have always mostly taken it as entertainment, but now I am really wondering. Just business, huh George? Disgusting. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment, Joe.
I also viewed the YouTube video, again. It is such an elementary sales production. My goodness, to think people actually fall for it… The “Dr” can clearly be heard saying, “this immune system.” In fact, they play the same exact clip on some of the commercials aired during coast to coast.
They obviously know what demographic to target, as at least half the listeners (some three million plus) believe in extreme conspiracy theories and alternative medicine. It is sad really. Like everyone else here, I was intrigued by the thought of such a wonder supplement/drug. Then again, if such a product existed, why has virtually no one heard of it? Why is it not being discussed by everyone? Why in the world (don’t laugh) could only the president get it? Kinda strange, right?
Alas, it clearly has zero scientific backing/evidence that it does anything at all. Science is what I do and believe in. In this case all we have are random people professing their utter belief and faith in it.
So disappointed, but I am by no means surprised. So glad I read this before falling prey to their clever sales pitch on the desperate. No such single drug or supplement exists, people. Thank you again, Joe.
Ricky, you are welcome. Since you said you were getting tired of George, check out The Paracast as an alternative. It’s on I tunes and here is their website theparacast.com. They are less “over the top” than George.
Hello Joe,
We have to ask what that question has to do with the crooked, murderous FDA approved drug studies that are peer reviewed in the United States?
We’re sending postings from The Alliance for Natural Health proving the corruptness of the false drug studies.
This is how it’s done in the United States;
http://www.anh-usa.org/fda-greenlight-drug-banned/
Now to answer your question;
We are one of many sponsors for the Jeff Rense Program. The one difference here is that you’re hearing people speak the truth unlike the drug studies of the United States…however, you’ll notice that we don’t mention a single disease since we are forbidden to do so in the United States.
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
MaryAnn, thanks for letting me know.
Joe, some more information your readers should know;
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/09/07/fda-deception-about-amalgams.aspx
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, How is the link relevant to Carnivora? the link talks about mercury in dental fillings.
Fascinating. I knew Carnivora was bs. Also, I find their main sales pitch interesting. You incorrectly stated it as, “wakes up the immune system and makes it dominant.” It’s actually, “wakes up this immune system and makes it dominant.” Hmm that’s interesting. As if they are trying to slide around the bs by specifically saying, this immune system. Strange verbiage.
Ricky, I honestly never thought of it like that. Only the person who said it knows I guess.
Joe, your readers might want to listen to this Radio interview heard around the World…
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Ostrow_031214.mp3
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, I listened to the start of the radio show but couldnt make out what show it was or when it aired. can you answer a few questions about it?
1. what is the name of the radio show?
2. When did it air?
3. Did it air on the web only or was it broadcast on radio?
Hello Joe,
You’ve asked these questions regarding our last post:
1. what is the name of the radio show?
2. When did it air?
3. Did it air on the web only or was it broadcast on radio?
The name of the radio show is the Jeff Rense Program. The Jeff Rense Program is heard as far as Australia and many other countries around the World. (http://rense.com/)
The air date for this radio show was March 12, 2014.
This is an email we’ve received today from Jeff Rense with regard to the answer to your question about the broadcast source;
“It is distributed on Satellite for N American radio but we don’t have a count of the stations. It is like the Wild West now.
We are also on Europe’s biggest radio and home dish satellite.
And, of course, online.
Best way to listen is go to RenseRadio.com and take the Listen Live button.
There is also a button on rense.com under my picture.”
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
Maryann, thanks for that. one more question if you dont mind. was it a paid segment (did carnivora pay for it in anyway?)?
Ahhh, Carnivora. I had no idea idea that it was popular again until I stumbled upon your site. No long ago, I found my old file on the subject from the 1980s, but I can’t locate it. If I come across it again, I’ll write to tell you what it contained.
As I recall, Venus’s flytrap was harvested in North or South Carolina and sent for processing in Germany. Except for the address of a clinic in Germany and a brochure, the file contained very little information. I also recall that the doctor in Germany who administered the extract to patients by injection was eventually forbidden to practice or use the product.
The papers were sent to me by Prof. Hildebert Wagner, who was then at the University of Munich. Wagner performed in vitro studies on various plant extracts for immunostimulating activity. At very small dilutions (far smaller than the amounts available from ingesting the plants or their extracts), they were active, whereas the opposite activity (immunosuppression or cytotoxicity) was obtained from higher concentrations.
None of the immunostimulating concentrations were ever demonstrated to be effective in human studies with measurable outcomes to show a difference in human health.
Venus’s flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) was among my papers on another napthoquinone-containing plant, commonly known in Brazil as “pau d’arco” (Handroanthus impetiginosus and H. heptaphyllus; formerly known as Tabebuia impetiginosa and T. heptaphylla, respectively).
Starting from anecdotal accounts of doctors and patients in the 1960s in Brazil and elsewhere in the 1980s, the inner bark of the trees was promoted for the treatment of cancer and numerous other diseases.
To this day, no one has conducted a well controlled clinical study to establish that the inner bark is of any benefit.
Pau d’arco is widely promoted on the basis of an assumed effect of stimulating or modulating the immune system. In turn, this activity is hypothesized as being due to a quinone known as “lapachol”, after the Argentine common name (“lapacho”) for related species of the trees. Even when extracted in pure form, lapachol is poorly absorbed by the oral route, which is also true of Beta-lapachone; a related quinone first found in the wood of pau d’arco and currently in clinical trials in the form of a synthetic pro-drug for the treatment of cancer.
Pro-drugs are metabolized to the active drug as a means of making them bioavailable when they are ineffective in pure form.
Like plumbagin, lapachol is a cytotoxic, free radical-generating naphthoquinone. Despite marketing efforts to promote lapachol as the “active” constituent of pau d’arco, it is either absent or found in minute amounts in the inner bark and is poorly soluble in water. Even in the wood, despite claims of much higher contents, the concentrations are relatively small (1-3%). Granted, like lapachol, plumbagin can kill cancer cells in vitro and in rodents, but that doesn’t mean it will be effective or safe in humans when administered by any route.
Marcel, interesting stuff and I appreciate you taking the time to share that.
My personal nightmare started back in 2011, a car accident developed into Secondary Lymphoma Stage III, in both legs.
My back hurt so much I had to sleep upright in my chair, by morning I had “elephant” legs…
I jump ahead in time to last December when I went once again to emergency…this was the 4th time since 2011…however this was the most serious…it seems I went into a coma like state Christmas eve and did not wake up until mid-Febuary , by this time I had a trach and a feeding tube .
By March I finally left the hospital to start my rehab….I am happy to tell you by mid May both the trach and feeding tube were removed!!!!
I still had my Lymph issues thou in both legs…I was finally discharged on June 9th my welcome home gift from my parents was your 6 week program (B1).
Anyway here it is about 6 weeks and my legs are not swelling up anymore…no more wrapping my legs up ..no more uncomfortable garments no more feeling I need to hide my legs and wear slacks…
I just want to say THANKS SO MUCH..I plan on keeping up this program!!!
Hey Joe… The adds are so obviously canned nonsense that I had to look it up & found your post. Key term from Wiki (below) “patent medicine”. It’s just a scam with really annoying adds. I hope the jerk (jerk in adds) is eaten alive by a giant Venus Flytrap, which is harvested and turned into “Carnivora”. -Steve Fairly
In alternative medicine
Venus flytrap extract is available on the market as herbal remedy, sometimes as the prime ingredient of a patent medicine named “Carnivora”. According to the American Cancer Society, these products are promoted in alternative medicine as a treatment for a variety of human ailments including HIV, Crohn’s disease and skin cancer, but “available scientific evidence does not support the health claims made for Venus flytrap extract”.[31]
Steve, thanks for writing. I also noticed the American Cancer Society critique and it was interesting. I wished they would have done a study of it too. I hope someone does one day.
If you search for canada cancer cure, you will find the Canadians have found a cheap cure for cancer, only the pharm companies want nothing to do with it cause it will ruin their business. The Canadians are getting money together for their own trials.
Nita, I did just that and searched “canada cancer cure” and the first thing I saw was a review of it at snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cancercure.asp These guys expressed caution about the effects of Dichloroacetate (believe that’s what you are referring to) until better studies were done.
The canadian cancer association also has this nice review about Dichloroacetate research :
http://www.cancer.ca/en/about-us/news/national/2013/canadian-cancer-societys-perspective-on-dca/?region=bc
It sounds interesting for some types of cancer but as you also say, it appears more research needs be done. I’m looking forward to seeing those studies. For what it’s worth, I hope it works.
I have been hearing an advertisement for Carnivora repeatedly, and this was the first site I clicked on.
Good Site! Great effort behind this. As for me? I’ll ignore the ad as I have been.
I also thank God for my good health.
Thanks Mike, I appreciate that! I’m glad you are healthy too.
Hello MaryAnn,
I will call your office Wednesday morning…….
Hello Joe,
I promise you will be the first to know. The awful looking & smelling Green Globs & liquid could’ve been many things. One thing is for certain my body didn’t hesitate getting rid of it after I consumed Carnivora.
Believer, sounds good and I wish you continued health.
Hello Joe,
I’m one of those “Carnivora Testimonials”..I’ve taken the Extract & the Pills off & on now for 4yrs+. If I could afford to stay on it for 6-12 months I would. Years ago I was like the average poster in this thread saying “Is this stuff for real?”. My Primary Physician told me I had Fatty Liver disease. Even the Tech that did the ultrasound said my Liver was Huge. My Doc recommended a change of diet & exercise. I always felt strange “movement” on my right side where the Liver is.
So I bought the Carnivora Pills, took 1 pill 3 times a day and My Liver & Bladder began to purge what I call Green Foul smelling Monsters & Toxic Green liquid. Joe I can’t tell you if this furry matter that I expelled was Mold, Fungus, Parasitic or Diseased toxins. There was so much of it that it scared me but I didn’t stop taking the Carnivora pills…I never felt sick but my bowels kept expelling Globs & Globs of this Green matter or poison.Eventually my stool returned to Brown..I couldn’t afford to buy more and eventually the “strange movement” on the right side of my rib cage returned…
I tried a product called “Oxy-sulfur”..Once again my body began expelling Monster like matter that scared me. And when the Oxy Sulfur or Carnivora kills the foreign stuff in your body you have to be near a bathroom because you expel so much of it and when your body is ready to release it there is no stopping or holding it..
I’ve had Blood work done to check for Cancer, I’ve done an endoscopy, colonoscopy..The main issue I seem to have is a Congested Liver that appears to be housing a Foreign Organism that dies when I take Powerful Immune Boosting products. I think if I stick with Carnivora or Oxy Sulfur for 1 year I’d rid myself of the organism that’s living in my Liver and perhaps in other organs..
So yes, Carnivora did Boost my Immune system and my Immune system said “Thank you”. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a “cure in a Jar or pill”…Your entire Body is the Cure for disease and when your Immune system is compromised you better look for Powerful Immune Boosting supplements Like Carnivora. It’s the price that keeps someone like myself from sticking with it..
Believer, thanks for writing. I have no idea what was coming out of your body. I would say however that we dont know that it came from your liver and bladder since it sounds you didn’t have it analyzed. Did you have your immune system measured before and after Carnivora use? If not, I dont think we can say the stuff you expelled were related to the immune system being bolstered either.
I truly hope you continue to be healthy. Having fatty liver disease is common in people who dont eat well and exercise so please do take your doctors advice. Here’s something on fatty liver disease that may help you learn more about it: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/121409p28.shtml
Nope I didn’t have my immune system measured before I began taking the Carnivora. All I can say is that my body didn’t begin dumping Green toxins until I began taking Carnivora. I’m guessing my body would not have released these toxins had it served a purpose in my body. There was so much of it & the odor was so Powerful I’m glad it came out instead of staying in.
Believer, I will just hope that you continue to keep getting better. If you ever are able to get the green stuff analyzed, Id be interested in knowing what it is.
Hello Believer,
Please contact our office at your earliest convenience at 1-866-836-8735 between 9:30am and 6:30pm Eastern time Monday through Friday.
Thank you.
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
Believer, sorry for being skeptical, but this testimony has Carnivora employee written all over it. Sorry, but my instincts tell me this was written by someone from the company. I have to go with my instincts because they are right way more than they are wrong.
I am still not above trying this product for myself, if you are from the company and this was made up to sell the product, you should be ashamed of yourself, so far I have not decided if Carnivora is good or bad based on the lack of concrete evidence. More than likely, I will try the product since I know of no one taking it.
Hello Scott, these should be listened to. Real people, telling of real experiences. Yes, I suggest you try the product, you have nothing to lose. It certainly worked for me and a close friend. ‘More Incredible Carnivora Stories Part 1’ and the link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhSc-BFQEc8. – Jeff Rense
with all good wishes.
Hello Joe, Maybe you can get a university to conduct the study!
Hi Tom, I’d think that’s something for the company would do. I have been told that some are in the works and I will eagerly read them when they are published.
Hello Joe, I just found your blog while going to the carnivore website. Glad there is someone who takes an objective look at these “things” in question.
For now I just wanted to add my two cents about my experience with Carnivora.
My wife, now 61, became disabled on Jan. 10, 2010. Since then to date she has suffered a multitude of health issues including four strokes, (second one left her wheelchair bound with partial paralysis, right side), a heart attack, she is in End Stage Renal Disease requiring dialysis 3 x weekly.
She has hep-C with liver complications, hypertension, type II diabetes with retinopathy, some (still minor) lower extremity circulatory issues. She has had a coronary arterial stent.
She has been hospitalized nearly a dozen times for CHF from fluid overload and last year while being treated for a minor foot infection, an inept and poorly trained registered nurse, not following proper protocol, dropped her while transferring from bed to chair and shattered her right femur badly enough that she now permanently sports a stainless steel rod and 4 screws.
She has bladder issues that require a foley catheter 24/7. Because of that she has a chronic fight with UTI’s. The frequency of those repeated infections, resulted last year in her resistance to all available antibiotics.
I was seeking an alternative, but integrative treatment that might help. With a lot of research I decided on carnivora.
I realized that the clinical studies weren’t there to back up some claims, but most of my decision for carnivora was influenced by the positive experience of a close friend and his use of it.
After 5 months following their protocol for the use of both the extract and capsules (with her nephrologist’s approval)’, the benefits for my wife were nothing short of amazing.
The frequency of her uti’s dropped by 30-40%. In addition, the 3 1/2 years before she started taking carnivora, she was depressed most of the time. She was never willing to do her physical or occupational therapy without my insistence, and her willingness to do anything at all was non existent. while on carnivora, she happily does her respective therapies, her mood is almost always positive, her mental acuity sharpened and she attempts things she would never have before. She even cooks dinner from time to time.
Her home health nurse and therapists were amazed at the change in her demeanor on the protocol.
Due to financial concerns we had to stop after about 7 months and she slowly returned to her previous state. We started her again four weeks ago and I am already seeing signs of her improvement.
I realize this is just our personal testimonial, but I believe in carnivora for my wife Linda and this time I am taking it as well to see what effect, if any it has on me.
Scott, So sorry to hear about the problems you and your wife have been going through! Aside from the physical toll its taken on your wife, I can only imagine the psychological stress all of this hasplaced on you both. Regardless of what I say, I’m really glad Carnivora is helping your wife and I hope it helps you as well. I will say a prayer today for you and your wife that she continues to improve.
Joe, one of your readers said:
“I realized that the clinical studies weren’t there to back up some claims, but most of my decision for carnivora was influenced by the positive experience of a close friend and his use of it.”
Just so any readers don’t misunderstand what is occurring, we make NO CLAIMS with respect to our product whatsoever and never have.
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
Maryann, thanks. I’m aware of that 🙂
Joe,
Can you check IP addresses of people that post on your blog? The skeptic in me thinks that there may be some shilling going on here.
Micah, I can check IPs but usually don’t. As with all of my reviews, if someone says something that out of the ordinary or over the top, I do try to challenge them to back it up. Sometimes they write back and sometimes they don’t. Those who don’t, I usually take their words with a grain of salt.
I’m glad you found my review useful and I’ll say a prayer tonight for your relative that they get the help they need.
In a nutshell, the medical establishment uses double blind studies it monitors to create acceptance or non acceptance of therapies that favor the drug industry. Any substance naturally occurring that endangers the profits of drug companies will be misrepresented, diluted, or disallowed always in favor of the drug industry.
This discussion concerning verifiable studies was the most amusing diatribe I have read in years. This is the equivalent of asking Bernard Madoff for investment advice. Do you honestly believe honest research by any reputable university will ever see the light of day if the research involves a natural substance that could potentially harm pharmaceutical profits? If you believe that, you simply do not understand the game of money and power. And that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
So please spare all of us this nonsense about legitimate double blind studies. You and I both know the FDA and the medical mafia will never allow such legitimate studies to ever be published. It would remove the tool used by allopathic doctors who simply say “show me the studies”.
This is why such studies will never happen in an official approved format. The mafia will simply hide or destroy the evidence as they have done to Linus Pauling and many other reputable doctors over the last 60 years. I will repeat the phrase so you fully understand the world we live in today…”Absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Period. End of discussion.
Dr. Campbell, I have no illusions that a natural/cheap cure for disease would put a dent into the profits of big pharma. that said, the research I’ve seen so far does not support, in my view, the claims for Carnivora.
While pharma has deep pockets and could, I’m sure pay some people off. if such a devastatingly effective natural cure existed, they would not be able to pay everybody off. Because many supplement companies may lack the funds to do framingham-type studies, I often advocate letting universities do research for them. Graduate studies (PhD and MS students) could easily test the effectiveness of supplements such as Carnivora. For example, the University of Colorado has done some research on a supplement called Protandim (click to see my review of protandim).
Also, because of the internet, anybody could publish studies they do instantly to the internet for the world to see, and hopefully replicate. Nobody is shutting down the internet not even big Pharma.
Power may corrupt, but one person with a dream can change the world.
Joe/Mary Ann,
I am still following this thread because I have never seen such a professional discussion of a product that “may or may not hold a potential to solve the riddle of some of todays health complications” .
Since there seems to be a plethora of individuals including myself that value Joe’s comments and research would it be a stretch for the institution of “Carnivora” ( on them) to have Joe come to their facilities to actually see carnivoras research, meet first hand people with positive results?
This would go a long way to make the public more sure that carnivora actually holds real benefits, rather than an impudent radio commercial that spews an advertisement meal.
S/,
Jared
Jared, thanks for your kind words and I also appreciate the professional discussion as well. While Im sure there is value of seeing the facility that makes Carnivora, I’m not sure if that would help me gain insights into whether Carnivora works or not – even if the product was meticulously made. That said, I wonder if MaryAnn could answer a question for me. I remember learning Carnivora was made in the CT/NY area but is it a laboratory and if so does the facility only make Carnivora or other supplements as well?
I know that my earlier comment was long Joe.
My point was concerning the baking soda for the cancer by raising the pH in the body. It’s my understanding that bacteria, yeast, fungus and presumably cancer function best in an acidic host.
As far as the candida, the colon cleanse prior to the colonoscomy was the thing that flushed my gutt of the bad bacteria, and the rest I did from the outside it orally.
The psoriasis is about 80% gone, and still in remission. I’m done with the 5 1/2 weeks of chemo/rad also, awaiting surgery. Again I share these facts with you and your readers in order to make a decision on carnivora, baking soda and/or an approach to cancer, which is what I was going to use to help my fight against cancer. I’m glad that I read what you had to say, ty !!!
Michael, oh ok. cancer and pH is not something I know about but if its helping you, I have no issues with it. Im not familiar with ph and its effect on cancer. I know the blood pH is a wee bit on the alkaline side while in the stomach, its quite acidic. how all this plays out in cancer I dont know but again as long as you are getting healthy then that’s what’s important to me.
Hello Joe,
I thank you and Dr Sukala for your rational pursuit of this issue of Carnivora. I thought that I would do some research on the product before purchasing it, as I do with all major decisions concerning cost and more recently the effects that it might have on a cancer, for I was diagnosed with cancer early in Febuary 2014.
I am a proponent of alternate treatments, I take several supplements with success, thus eliminating the toxic effects of the drugs offered on tv, despite the happy faces that help sell these products. Though I do recognized the benefits of modern medicine, I think the approach that modern medicine has treating cancer has a huge interest in it’s current treatments, mainly the huge profits made. Look at the recent articles on the Hep C pill, $1000.oo in the U.S. vs other nations costs?
Not to mention that it offers chemo, a poison to me, the radiation and surgery, or the knife. Thats not a comforting approach to me, as in ‘modern’?
That being said, I want to share what I have learned.
1. I have psoriasis
2. I had irritable bowel syndrome
3. I had toenail and fingernail fungus
4. I had ear infections.
5. I had arthritis
All these I first acquired 17 years ago. I did my own personal research and traced ALL these back to being symptoms of candida, after the modern approach was to treat each of these symptoms rather than seek the root cause they all had in common. Candida is a yeast overgrowth that has gone systematic in my body.
17 years ago I had 2 bouts with pneumonia requiring lots of antibiotics, which later my wife having chronic yeast infections, and having sex at times, this being unknown to me, is how I acquired the candida. A few years later I figured it out and took the natural approach.
My pH was always acidic, 6.6 – 6.8. I tried many supplements, but simply didn’t give it time, even the natural colon cleanse, with only slight results. I gave up as most men do thinking this doesn’t work either.
Fast forward to Feb 2014. After doing Rx for the colon cleanse prep, I was informed of the cancer. I then began taking a high strength 17 strain proboitic. Seeking to raise my pH levels above 7.0, I began eating only raw vegis and meat. Lots of water, occasionally with Red Mill baking soda in it, along with lemon/lime water made from slices squeezed into a pitcher of water. No sugars and no starches at all.
In 3 weeks my psoriasis began to disappear in the same manner that it began. I think the heavy duty colon cleanse was key! I was out the breeding ground for the yeast. After chemo started, it continued to go away, as the Oncologist stated it would. In fact, all my symptoms listed above vanished except the psoriasis which is still going away with my continued efforts. This leads me to the reason I write this to you.
I strongly feel and do understand through my research and lifes experience that my cancer is a product of the candida or canadias. I know that I had yeast in me and throughout my body, thus I suspect has caused the cancer, 15 years later? The baking soda has helped raise my pH level to barely 7.0 therefore I had to comment on it’s connection to cancer. I think that it’s all connected.
Thank you for your efforts on the Carnivora. I have always figured that if a product or method was truly what it claimed to be, then that in time the word would get out and common people would inform each other of the success. Carnivora has had from 1981-2014 and no one has ever mentioned it on the streets.
I won’t be investing in that product. But I do hear of the great success and documentation on the CBD oils found in the hemp plant. Lots of success there.
I’m ready to try it if I can convince my employer of it because I do take UA’s, in which case I’d come up hot. I’m a large commercial crane operator and drive big rigs at times, both licenses are vital to me.
Thank you Joe, I hope that I have made some sense here. Michael
Michael, thanks for writing and sharing your thoughts. While candida and cancer is not my area of study, I am truly glad for the progress you have made and will say a prayer that you beat cancer and keep making improvements in your health.
Joe, we’re looking for “Brian” to assist him with his question. Can you help us to locate Brian?
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, if he sees this he can reach out to you since your contact info is already in your comments.
Which Brian are you after?
Brian
The “Brian” we are looking for had a “skin condition” and another internal immune condition which we cannot mention…
MaryAnn Kiss
That was me. Why I was curious was you mentioned a question I asked. I cannot remember asking a question, but I have sent several blogs to Joe so its quite possible.
Perhaps you can remind me, please?
At the moment I am taking 6 a day. I was taking 12 a day before. I will increase the amount slowly as the results are quicker with the 12.
I would like to contact you you privately MaryAnn as I have some questions. Is this possible and if so, by what means, please?
Brian
Dear MaryAnn,
I should preface my forthcoming comments by saying that you appear to be more evangelical and emotional than rational and evidence-based in your views. Therefore, my comments are more geared for Joe’s readers who are still on the fence and simply looking for independent information from both camps.
Whilst I appreciate the vigour and spirit with which you defend your company’s marketing spin, you have yet to adequately address both my and Joe’s calls for independent evidence.
For example, you say I shouldn’t dismiss the Europe study “…since it was performed in Europe by four highly experienced individuals who partook in this clinical study.” How does this refute the fact that the study was 1) not peer-reviewed; and 2) not a trial evaluating its therapeutic effect on humans.
You also cite what is essentially the Galileo defence in that Keller was thrown out of Germany because he was “curing too many people (presumably of cancer) without the peer-reviewed cross-over double blind clinical studies that are the rage in the United States and elsewhere.” Was any of this documented and corroborated by third parties? Why did he not write it up as a case report in the medical journals (again, where it could be reviewed for its scientific integrity?).
I am quick to point out that I have absolutely no torrid love affair with the pharmaceutical industry or medical field, but I am in favor of independent evidence which minimises confounding variables.
I am not anti-supplement either. I am in favour of supplements that have research behind them and, in fact, have authored articles and given talks at major industry conferences to this effect.
As for testimonials, I believe I’ve stated earlier that they should not be arbitrarily dismissed, rather they can provide thrust to guide further research studies. You and your company should be embracing this and heeding both Joe and my calls for this evidence. You give the impression that studies are under way and, whilst this is a step in the right direction, what you do with those results will be equally as telling as the results. If they’re favourable, I expect you will publish them in a reputable journal (not the Bangladesh Journal of Botany). If your results show no benefit over a placebo or comparable treatment, I still expect you would publish these findings. That’s how science works. You wear your results on your sleeve and you own them either way.
Yours in health
Hello Joe,
The comments made by the Doctor in Australia are deficient and unfair.
Since we can’t make any claims in the United States we won’t go down that road. Further, for him to make the comment that “Structure Elucidation of Plumbagin-analogues from Dionaea Muscipula and their immunomodulating activities in vitro and in vivo” is “meaningless” is a deficient way of thinking since this study was performed in Europe by four highly experienced individuals who partook in this clinical study (they all have vast history in this realm).
We agree that this study was not peer reviewed since it was commissioned and paid for by Dr. Helmut Keller himself (the developer in Europe) who ended up getting thrown out of Germany eventually because he was curing too many people WITHOUT THE PEER REVIEWED CROSSOVER DOUBLE BLIND CLINICAL STUDIES THAT ARE THE RAGE IN THE UNITED STATES AND ELSEWHERE. While we agree that we will partake in these type of clinical studies in the United States, this fact has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a product works for its users.
For this Doctor to denigrate the title of the Molecular Recognition Study is biased, angry and just plain lacks credibility.
OIL (THE TRUTH) ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP.
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, while not wanting to put words in Dr. Sukalas mouth, from my stand point the elucidation study you mentioned was not only not peer reviewed, it was not even on humans. How can we market a product to people that has no people research.
According to DSHEA, whcih Orin Hatch authored, supplement companies are allowed to make Structure/Function Claims. So the idea that you cant make claims are not entirely true.
That said, I do believe I understand what may be going on in light of an 2011 FDA document I found which appears to indicate packages of carnivora making specific drug claims as to its effectiveness
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_199.html
In this respect you are correct, specific claims as outlined in this 2011 FDA document are not permitted under the current US laws.
Can you shed light on this FDA document noting that on the outside Carnivora was labeled as a vitamin while on the inside packaging, the document notes ” Accompanying the drug shipment is a protocol which includes the dosage and treatment schedules. This document states that the drugs are “proven safe and effective in the treatment of cancer, chronic diseases and HIV infection in man.” Fraudulent promotion by these means is evident. “
Joe, the issue that WE make claims and that you saw this in an FDA letter on the FDA site pertains to Dr. Hans Nieper’s company who was illegally (and still is) using the name Carnivora just as he had done many years before when he had enticed Dr. Helmut Keller, the real developer of Carnivora, to sue him in a German court of law.
Ten years later the case had taken place. Hans Nieper lost his attempt to steal Keller’s research, and all the intellectual property with it. Unbeknownst to us, this many years later, Nieper’s defunct company is still illegally using our name, and attempting to ship fraudulent “Carnivora” into the United States. We are currently instituting a lawsuit to prevent these kinds of occurrences in the future.
Yes, surely people have contacted the company about their cures from around the world. But that doesn’t matter one bit in the United drugged States. As you already know we are prohibited from making disease claims!
Carnivora is manufactured in North Salem, NY. The FDA is fully aware of this. We have nothing to hide.
As mentioned, the late Dr. Hans Nieper’s company was illegally using the
Tradename (Trademarked and Copyrighted by us) when he attempted to
import “Carnivora” into the US).
See the FDA assessment below:
—– Forwarded Message —–
From: Carnivora Research Int’l.
To: “ralph.fucetola@usa.net”
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:00 PM
Subject: Clearance that “Carnivora” was NOT imported “illegally” from Germany, etc / and our good standing with the FDA
Hi Ralph,
Below is the original email we received from Walgreen’s Counsel in regard to receiving the clearance information;
Response to accusations that we, Carnivora Research International, are the subject of two import alerts (Import Alert 66-28 and Import Alert 66-63 dated 3/18/2011) as stated in the Initial Evaluation/Initial Disposition section of FACTS Complaint #132205 (CAERS #167296).
As shown on the actual Import Alerts, there are companies in different parts of the globe that are continuing to violate our copyright and trademark protection of the trade name “Carnivora”. Richard Ostrow’s position that this could not have possibly been Carnivora Research International (based in the United States) as a result of the import’s origination from Germany, was verified on the FDA website as shown by clicking the link below.
While Carnivora Forschungs was purchased in 2001, all operations from Germany were shortly thereafter closed down permanently as the company’s business shifted to the United States.
The citing of these Import Alerts was proven to originate from Dr. Hans Nieper’s old company who has had legal confrontations in Germany with Carnivora Forschungs many years ago. Helmut Keller, the former owner of Carnivora Research (Forschungs), had taken Dr. Neiper to court in Germany for several infringements and violations and subsequently prevailed in a German court of Law against Neiper.
Ultimately, this “import alert” incident clears us of any Import Alert / fraudulent medical claims that originated from our company (Carnivora Research Int’l).
Click the link below for verification by the FDA that these import alerts from Germany had nothing to do with Carnivora Research International, as shown;
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_199.html
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_182.html
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, thanks I appreciate you clearing that up. I admit I was a bit confused by the document given that if Carnivora was made in the US, that it had to be imported from Germany? Your links cleared that up.
When I asked about the people who contacted Carnivora with favorable compliments, my question really was why didn’t anybody tabulate that data. Its not against the law to do this. For example, the company that makes Juice Plus conducts a periodic survey of kids who take the product. It helps them market the product and while not perfect, it also provides some data about the health habits of those kids as well. My thinking was, in the absence of actual research, a document of this type might provide some preliminary evidence and a road-map for future research directions.
Again, appreciate you clearing that stuff up about the FDA. 🙂
Joe, did you notice the linguistic change in the Writing of Mary Ann Kiss? I think the actual writer is Richard Ostrow
Eric, as a matter of fact, yes, I did notice a change in how her comments were worded.
Hi Joe,
Silly stuff from “Eric.”
I showed Eric’s statement to Richard that it was “Richard Ostrow” who made the comments.
We had a good laugh!
Most sincerely,
The REAL MaryAnn Kiss!
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, thanks for letting me know you’re still out there 🙂
Hello Joe,
This was recorded for an international radio show and can be heard on Rense.com.
We thought your readers could benefit from these wonderful stories;
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Ostrow_093013.mp3
We think your people should absolutely hear this as well; (actual testimonial to which we are referring begins at 8:30)
This is specifically for Dr. Bill Sukala;
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Ostrow_031214.mp3
Incidentally, Orin Hatch is the best thing to happen to the Supplement Industry.
He’s not part and parcel to hundreds of thousands of drug deaths each year…
Most sincerely,
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, with all respect, these are just stories/testimonials. So far, the evidence you have shown me to support Carnivora amounts to:
1. newsletters
2. test tube studies presented at conferences and not published and presumably not peer reviewed
3. testimonials
4. excerpts from books that may/may not be peer reviewed
Don’t you feel after 25 or so years, somebody, somewhere on Earth, should have published a human trial on Carnivora? Its not hard to do. Why after 25 years nothing?
As for Orin Hatch, he is the person primarily responsible for the dietary supplement health and education act (DSEHA). He is a senator from Utah, where many supplement companies reside. I dont think that is a coincidence. For those not familiar with DSHEA, see my FAQ Page.
Hi again Joe,
Yes, we are fully aware that double-blind, crossover clinical studies that are U.S. based are the route to go. We are doing just that. This information we just sent to you was to prove to you and your readers that Carnivora works for a great majority who follow the Program Instructions enclosed with their shipment.
We want to be clear that the aforementioned clinical studies have nothing to do with whether a product actually works for its users.
You and many others are wondering why you don’t see U.S. based peer reviewed clinical studies prior to the current Owner’s watch. The company was based in Europe and U.S. based studies were not sought after. The current Owner has ultimately decided, with a group of attorneys that a rather significant compromise is in order.
The compromise has everything to do with clinical studies that do not mention a single disease (by necessity), yet show the ability of Carnivora to extinguish ALL pathogens, as well as its multi-faceted ability to wake up the immune system to protect the body.
All in good time.
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
MaryAnn, What you sent previously really didn’t prove Carnivora works in people because there are no people studies yet. That said, I am curious so can you give me an idea of when your published studies will be coming out?
“Hey Joe, where you goin’ with that gun in your hand?” lol
It should be in the neighborhood of 12 to 15+ months before the clinical studies are completed. We’ll keep you abreast.
We have to differ with you though Joe. Then there must be a heck of a lot of liars all over the world for over 35 years. It’s a good thing we don’t rely on conventional studies to answer the question “does this product actually work?”
The world is constantly studying how to cure “disease” (under the guise of the corrupt FDA) while people continue to die and the “cure” never comes…while big pharma gets more rich every day. Something isn’t right here, is it? Ever notice how people continue to donate to cancer walks and charities for disease and the cure STILL never comes? Some people STILL need formal “peer reviewed” studies to get the the rare truth. For that we are saddened when a 100% natural, harmless product continues to provide wonderful, real-life stories for more than 35 years from more than 25 countries around the world.
We know both you and Bill will be jumping for joy when you get the “peer reviewed” clinical studies in your hands!
We cannot be responsible for how well our product does prior to the release of “peer reviewed” studies. To this day not a single claim comes from Carnivora Research International…
I have a question for you Joe; if God forbid one of your relatives or loved ones got ill, and you had previous knowledge that Carnivora was a powerful healer — not from “peer reviewed” studies, can you honestly say that you would advise them by stating “I think its best that you get more sick until the “peer reviewed” studies are released in about a year.”
I know what everyone in my circles would tell their family to do…
MaryAnn Kiss
Information Specialist / Social Media Marketing
Carnivora Research International
Hi MaryAnn, good music reference 🙂 Yes I do place an emphasis on published peer reviewed studies but I’m the first to admit they are not all perfect. If you read through the pages of my site, you’ll see how I point out that many of them used to substantiate supplement efficacy are test tube studies or mouse studies. We are far more complicated then these things.
When you say “To this day not a single claim comes from Carnivora Research International…” But in the FDA letter from 2011 where http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_199.html were boxes were found containing words that Carnivora was “proven safe and effective in the treatment of cancer, chronic diseases and HIV infection in man.” That’s a claim.
MaryAnn I know the FDA has issues and some big ones too but talking about peoples fears and conspiracy of big pharma and the FDA clouds what I believe is the larger issue which is how can you market a product to people without any good proof it works in people? So far mostly we’ve only seen mostly testimonials from people we don’t know.
In the 35 years that Carnivora has been out there, surely people who say they have been cured of cancer, HIV etc must have contacted the company. Didn’t anybody think to collect information on these people? Have they ever sent a survey to these people to collect information on them? I’m sure everybody reading this would love to see information of all the different diseases that Carnivora has cured/helped. But that information seems to have never been gathered, which is very odd considering that a scientist created Carnivora. Even survey data would be more useful than what I’ve seen so far.
Again, just because the evidence isn’t where I’d like it to be, is not proof Carnivora doesn’t work. But I just scratch my head over the fact that nobody, over the last 35 years, thought to test it in people. Even those alternative medicine doctors whose books and newsletters you sent me, never thought enough to invest a little bit of money and time to test it. This wouldn’t be hard to do. If we started today, we could have preliminary, unpublished human data in collected in a month.
BTW, I’m curious where is Carnivora made?
I agree Joe. I am fine with sponsored research provided that there is full transparency in methodology, access to the original data sheets (if any hint of discrepancies), and full review and publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
One of the main problems with supplement sales is that there are relatively low barriers to entry and there is no requirement to have qualified scientists on staff to ensure there is any science to justify claims. In both of our long careers in this field, we have seen countless companies with nothing more than marketing and spin control people manipulating the story for the purpose of profit. Moreover, when you try to reason with these marketing types, they simply do not comprehend even the most basic scientific underpinnings of what constitutes evidence.
While many of them tout anecdotal testimonials as “evidence,” these do are not a substitute for well-designed research. But to be fair, I do not think we should necessarily discount them altogether. I think that if people say something works for them, then it may give thrust to the movement to carry out research which may further explain these testimonials.
So I’d want to know if, first, was there a mathematical (statistical) difference between the experimental and placebo group. Also, what was the sample size? Was a statistical power calculation even carried out? If so, how many subjects were needed to be able to detect a meaningful difference? Once the data is collected, what was the standard deviation? How much statistical “noise” was there and does this impinge on our ability to make inferences? What was the effect size? If there was a meaningful difference, was it clinically significant? For example, a reduction of 1 % in HbA1c in people with diabetes can translate to a major reduction in risk of a heart attack, EVEN IF the reduction isn’t so-called “statistically significant” or is borderline significant. Alternatively, something can be statistically significant, but may not be clinically significant.
The point of the above is that companies like Carnivora have not done their full homework yet, but have still pushed forward in taking the product to market. Sadly, the loopholes in regulation preclude them from having to provide sufficient evidence so long as it’s labeled a dietary supplement that is “not intended to treat, diagnose, blah blah blah.” We can thank Utah’s Senator Orrin Hatch for that garbage legislation which was clearly backed by a massive pro-supplement lobby (mostly centred in Utah). Companies have been squeezing their cash cows through this loophole for 20 years this year (I still remember when it passed).
Back in 1998, I authored the IJSN article on pyruvate which, while it had research behind it, the research did NOT fairly support the marketing claims. (http://www.williamsukala.com/articles/ijsnpyruvate.pdf). In that article, I challenged the marketers to answer my calls to justify the microscopic dosages they were using. Further research eventually debunked the earlier research that small doses, in fact, did NOT have any effect. Here we are 16 years later and, to date, they have not been able to provide evidence to the contrary.
In the case of Carnivora, I’d like to see research that it “works.” I’d like to see them get rid of the ambiguous jargon in their marketing which means absolutely nothing. I’d like to be able to tell the patients I work with that this can help improve their health.
So on that note, my challenge to Carnivora remains:
1) Have integrity and be honest with your customers about the current lack of research.
2) Get rid of the superfluous, ambiguous marketing jargon. Be specific by what you mean.
3) If the research is carried out and published at some point in the future, have someone like Joe or myself with science training let you know what the results really mean in practical terms relative to your marketing claims.
You now have your work cut out for you.
Hi Joe,
An important link on Carnivora from the American Cancer Association:
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/venus-flytrap
In particular, I thought this passage was intriguing and is consistent with both of our findings:
What is the evidence?
Available scientific evidence does not support the health claims made for Venus flytrap extract. Plumbagin, a substance found in many plants, is thought to be the active ingredient in the Venus flytrap. The plant also contains other compounds such as flavonoids, acids, and enzymes (digestive proteins).
Most of the studies done on the herbal extract were conducted by the physician who patented the drug Carnivora, who also has a large financial stake in a clinic that administers the drug and in the company that manufactures the drug.
Joe, do you know if there is a conflict of interest in this particular case? Is this company the same as the one referred to above? Thanks for any clarification you may provide. Thanks.
Bill, yes I believe the ACS article you linked to is referring to Carnivora although they do, in passing, mention other sellers of similar products too. I personally wish the American Cancer Society would do a study on Carnivora or support such a study. I think such research would be relatively easy to do. Some may say there could be a conflict of interest but I personally have no problems with company-sponsored research if the research is done well.
Hi Joe,
This is an open letter to MaryAnn Kiss, the Information Specialist and Social Marketing person for Carnivora. I received an email from Miss Kiss (love that it rhymes) but decided I would prefer to respond in a more public fashion for the benefit of your readers.
It was a short email which simply stated:
“We understand your skepticism because we know that’s the way things work…
Let the chips fall where they will when the U.S. based clinical studies are completed.”
My response:
I don’t think skeptical is the right word. I’m simply stating the facts in this particular case.
I would like to make a few points that I feel should be considered by people thinking of using Carnivora.
1) I am wholeheartedly in favor of a product which can live up to the lofty claims made by Carnivora. As of this writing, the facts remain that your company does not have any independent corroborating evidence which supports such claims. To date, you’ve provided “evidence” which does not meet an appropriate threshold for what could be considered scientific evidence. It is merely conjecture and overblown marketing hype.
2) The article you provided to Joe entitled “Structure elucidation of plumbagin-analogues from Dionaea muscipula and their immunomodulating activities in vitro and in vivo” has a scientific sounding title, but does not appear to provide any support for your health marketing claims.
I am making specific reference to your ambiguous claim “Multi-faceted immune system optimization through systemic immune modulation.” What does that even mean anyway? Define optimisation in this context? Precisely define what you mean by “systemic immune modulation.”
Unless you can provide a definition for the above, then it is really nothing more than fancy poppycock which does nothing more than make your product sound more scientific than it is.
3) The paper referred to in point 2 is only a conference paper. But if you understand how scientific rigour works, these findings should have been 1) published in a peer-reviewed journal after the conference and 2) within that publication, the authors should have made a clear and unambiguous link that this product can improve immune function above and beyond that of a placebo. They would need to provide the statistics for further review which would include a mean and standard deviation. I’d also like to see the statistical effect sizes so I could determine for myself if there is any merit to your claims.
4) Your marketing uses all the typical ambiguous jargon which, while it may impress and baffle your customers, really doesn’t say anything at all from a responsible scientific perspective. For example:
Your Claim
“Get powerful antioxidant support for heart and cell growth function.”
My response:
How do you quantify powerful?
How does it “support” heart and cell growth function? In what way?
Your Claim
“No toxic or mutagenic effects in humans or animals.”
My response:
Where is your evidence for this? Do you have independent published research from the medical literature to substantiate that it is no more toxic or mutagenic than a placebo?
Your Claim
“Our manufacturing process employs superior European technology.”
My response:
To which technology are you referring? And how does this substantiate your product marketing claims?
Your Claim
“Promotes / Supports resistance to harmful invaders.”
My response:
What do you mean by this? How does it promote/support resistance to harmful invaders? What invaders? Be specific please.
Your Claim
“Take advantage of 17 multi-dimensional nutrients in their natural state working synergistically to support the natural healing process.”
My response:
I have advanced training in nutritional biochemistry, but I’ve never come across the phrasing “multi-dimensional nutrients.” What specifically do you mean by this? How do you define and quantify “synergistically?” How do these multi-dimensional nutrients “support” the natural healing process? How do you quantify this support?
Closing thoughts
The bottom line that your customers need to be aware of is that you have taken a product to market with insufficient scientific evidence and you have used ambiguous terminology in your marketing literature. You are trying desperately to cling onto old and perhaps outdated European papers which still do not appear to lend any credible support to your marketing claims.
I don’t care where people spend their money. If somebody wants to spend their money on a product with no evidence, I’m fine with that provided they have taken on board all the facts before their purchase. And to be clear, Carnivora has not, in my opinion, provided fair and unbiased information for people to make an educated decision.
Are people stupid? No, but they may not have the scientific training in the nutritional sciences that Joe and I possess. Do you think Joe and I are biased in our views about your product? While that might be your impression, we simply want to provide consumers with a healthy balance of information.
If some day you are able to provide legitimate evidence to support your marketing claims, then I will be more than happy to support this product. Heck, if it was that good and could help my heart patients, then I’d probably want to talk to you about becoming a brand ambassador. I’ll even buy you a gluten-free fish taco to discuss the details.
Yours in health,
Bill Sukala, PhD
Bill,
I am one of the people who did try Carnivora. I read books and articles, one from a VERY prominent Doctor who advised his readers who had cancer to use it as he had told some of his patients about it.
What were the results? I have both bladder cancer and skin cancers.
After 6 weeks my melanoma had vanished and 2 other cancers of the skin could not be found.
My bladder cancer is still with me to this day.
There is a lot more information available in books on cancer alternatives about Carnivora, and why the suppliers cant make claims of any type with respect to cancer cures other than that recommended by the FDA.and why they can’t.
Th is apply’s to all the alternative cancer cures NOT just Carnivora.and there are dozens of them. Reading peoples response to the different types of cures, it seems that different ones cures different types of cancers.
Brian